Yes another chain/saw question

[sb47]

SB
Do you have an old bar you can compare the length, holes and slots with the new bar? Maybe it's the bar itself and not the chain?

It's the same as the old bar.

 

[sb47]

Did the new sprocket have the same number of teeth as the old one?

Yes same.

 

[Chevboy0167]

Broken, loose or worn out AV mounts????

 

[Duane(Pa)]

I'm a little surprised your 261 didn't come with a rim sprocket. If it had, you could switch to an 8 pin rim and take up some of the slack.

 

[SteveSr]

Chain stretch i.e .wear is caused by the following:

1. Excessive load - i.e. forcing the saw to cut with a dull chain.
2. Insufficient quantity of oil - i.e lack of lubrication.
3. Poor quality / type of oil - Oil needs to stay on the bar ALL of the way around.
4. Contamination with dirt / grit from various sources.

Although I have never bothered to do it, it should be straight forward/easy to actually measure chain stretch as follows:

1. Start with an even footing by cleaning/de-greasing the chain(s) using a suitable solvent like kerosene/diesel.
2. Stick a bar with a clean bar groove in a vice.
3. Lay the chain to be tested in the top bar groove and pull on each end to elongate (stretch) it.
4. Using a good 12-18" steel rule measure the distance between the center of 2 rivets about 12"+ apart.
5. Mark these two rivets with paint or magic marker.
6. At this point you can gently try to compress the chain (without raising it off the bar) and measure the new distance between the same rivets. This will give you an idea of the total stretch of this particular chain.
7. You can also do this with a brand new chain to get an idea of a baseline starting point.

This method is what I use to determine the wear/stretch of bicycle chains which have a 0.5" pitch. When stretch gets to 0.125" out of 12" (1%) it is time for a new chain.

@Philbert Is there anything that I missed?

 

[farmguywithasaw]

The new chain is too long, it’s the only thing that makes sense.
ms261
He said it has
1 new bar
2 new sprocket
3 new chain

also the problem is found on both his saws.

A new chain not run rules out oilling. This is assuming that when all the slack is out of the chain the tensioner is more forward than it should be. There has to be some slack to get the chain on. The only way to know is if we get a count of the drive links. If however the # of links matches then we can conclude that either the oil that he uses is either different or changed some how or the cutting conditions have changed. Sandy/ gritty wood is hard on chains, also cutting with a dull chain will cause lots of stretch.

 

[farmguywithasaw]

Op says he goes 5-6 tank without sharpening, is that too long? I usually sharpen whenever it “ feels” dull. I don’t like to push my saw through the wood

 

[PV Hiker]

Op says he goes 5-6 tank without sharpening, is that too long? I usually sharpen whenever it “ feels” dull. I don’t like to push my saw through the wood

Even for a "RM" chain with just the right clean wood might be pushing the limits. After 2-3 tanks is reasonable to do a touch up with a couple of pushes of the file to get the cutter back to preforming well.

It all depends on the wood and cleanness of the wood. Another factor is the operator as to how the saw is used and pushed beyond what it should be used. Dull chain and operator error causes heat and poor oiling efficiency witch leads to chain stretch and premature bar wear.

 

[sb47]

I'm a little surprised your 261 didn't come with a rim sprocket. If it had, you could switch to an 8 pin rim and take up some of the slack.

It did come with a rim drive but I had the same issue so I tried switching to a spur drive to see if that changed anything. It didn't.

 

[sb47]

Even for a "RM" chain with just the right clean wood might be pushing the limits. After 2-3 tanks is reasonable to do a touch up with a couple of pushes of the file to get the cutter back to preforming well.

It all depends on the wood and cleanness of the wood. Another factor is the operator as to how the saw is used and pushed beyond what it should be used. Dull chain and operator error causes heat and poor oiling efficiency witch leads to chain stretch and premature bar wear.

I don't force the saw to cut. I generally just let the weight of the saw do the cutting and let it glide through the wood on it's own. I'm not running a speed cutting race when I'm cutting firewood. I cut green wood because it's softer wood then dry wood and cuts easier. Running 4 or 5 tanks is the max before I touch up the cutters but I usually touch up the chain after 2 or 3 tanks. Sometimes I have to touch up the cutters after only one tank. It all depends on the wood and how the saw is cutting.
Ether way that is not what my issue is.
As I have stated before I put on a brand new chain, drive sprocket and new bar and even with all brand new parts I only have half the adjustment available. With all brand new parts there is no wear issues present so wear issues are not the problem.

 

[sb47]

Thanks for all the ideas but let me make it as clear as I can.
I have tried all brand new parts, New chain, new bar and new drive sprocket both rim drive and spur drive and it still only gives me half the adjustment as before when the saw was new. Once again it's not a wear problem because it's the same with all brand new parts. I don't know how to make that any clearer.
If I only had this problem with used parts then it could be a wear issue, but not with all new parts.

 

[ericm979]

All my bars are like that. I think it's so you can loosen the bar enough to get the chain off.

 

[pdqdl]

Yes same.

Did you put the new one side by side with the old one? Even a small difference would affect your adjustment.

 

[TRTermite]

I have a setup similar to this, but I never bother using the punch/breaker, only the spinner.

What do you use to break the chain? You have me CURIOUS.....

 

[pdqdl]

There are lots of ways.
A lot of seasoned veterans just walk over to their grinder and quickly grind flush the rivet head. Then a quick sideways twist and your chain has two free ends.

I am such a cheapskate, I often re-use the rivets. It takes more time, but it works when you run out of new rivets. Gotta use the rivet punch for that option.

 

[HarleyT]

What do you use to break the chain? You have me CURIOUS.....

I just grind off the rivet heads and wiggle the chain.

 

[TRTermite]

I just grind off the rivet heads and wiggle the chain.

Thanks ...

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

Thanks for all the ideas but let me make it as clear as I can.
I have tried all brand new parts, New chain, new bar and new drive sprocket both rim drive and spur drive and it still only gives me half the adjustment as before when the saw was new. Once again it's not a wear problem because it's the same with all brand new parts. I don't know how to make that any clearer.
If I only had this problem with used parts then it could be a wear issue, but not with all new parts.

Just count the chain drive links already!

 

[Ryan'smilling]

I have asked several dealers in my area about the tools and parts to take chains apart and put them back together and none of them have them or can get them. I cut and split over 100 cords a year so I tend to go through a number of chains per year and If I'm only getting half life that doubles my chain count for the year. At 30+ bucks a loop it wouldn't take long to recoup my money.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3818803014...hAM_IgtxqxLcnmHl3OzjvlCCATnSf6HQaAsCzEALw_wcB
I have this set. Seller is legit. They sell the archer chain as well, which I like well enough, especially at the price they sell it at. Though occasionally you can buy 100' rolls of Oregon on here cheaper than you can buy even the chinese stuff online. Having a breaker and spinner really opens up a lot of options and I think it pays for itself quickly. I've picked up chains on clearance or used chains that don't fit anything I run, but with the right tools to spin them into what I need it becomes a great deal. I will say that buying Stihl chain, even by 100' rolls just seems crazy expensive to me. I like the chain well enough, but I think they want $450 or more for a 100' roll. No thanks.

 

[HarleyT]

Just count the chain drive links already!

And put up a pic of the original sprocket!