Yet another bar and chain question: 20" Stihl 026

[NovaMan]

Hi all, I have a Stihl 026 with a ported muffler that I bought from Andy (Lakeside53) many years ago. I helped a friend cut down some trees last fall, and he took my bar and chain to a mutual friend to have it sharpened and trued. Well, I still haven't gotten them back, so I'm beginning to think about buying replacements. The bar was a regular Stihl Rollomatic 20" and the chain I used the most was 3/8" full comp, probably RS3 or similar. The saw has a 7-pin drive sprocket. It cut great when I wasn't hitting rocks and nails, but I'm a hot rodder so I'm always in search of better performance. Would I be better off with a 0.325" pitch narrow kerf bar and chain? How much narrower is a narrow kerf compared to standard? Can I run 0.325" with my current drive sprocket? Does anyone make a 20" x 0.050" bar for an 026? (Yes, it would balance better with an 18" bar, but I really like the reach of the 20" bar.)

 

[Pioneer]

3/8 20" bar from Oregon. Had one one my 390, they are narrow enough to work with the Stihl ps chain. I knocked off 30 percent from my cutting times going from RS to the PS chain on a 40cc saw and 16 inch bar. Side benefit was a smoother cut.
Stick with the 3/8 sprocket if you already have it on the saw.
https://www.oregonproducts.com/en/versacut™-guide-bar,-20"/p/200vxlhd025

 

[Mad Professor]

3/8 20" bar from Oregon. Had one one my 390, they are narrow enough to work with the Stihl ps chain. I knocked off 30 percent from my cutting times going from RS to the PS chain on a 40cc saw and 16 inch bar. Side benefit was a smoother cut.
Stick with the 3/8 sprocket if you already have it on the saw.
https://www.oregonproducts.com/en/versacut™-guide-bar,-20"/p/200vxlhd025

You can't run picco chain on a regular 3/8 bar and would also need a picco drive sprocket

 

[Mad Professor]

Hi all, I have a Stihl 026 with a ported muffler that I bought from Andy (Lakeside53) many years ago. I helped a friend cut down some trees last fall, and he took my bar and chain to a mutual friend to have it sharpened and trued. Well, I still haven't gotten them back, so I'm beginning to think about buying replacements. The bar was a regular Stihl Rollomatic 20" and the chain I used the most was 3/8" full comp, probably RS3 or similar. The saw has a 7-pin drive sprocket. It cut great when I wasn't hitting rocks and nails, but I'm a hot rodder so I'm always in search of better performance. Would I be better off with a 0.325" pitch narrow kerf bar and chain? How much narrower is a narrow kerf compared to standard? Can I run 0.325" with my current drive sprocket? Does anyone make a 20" x 0.050" bar for an 026? (Yes, it would balance better with an 18" bar, but I really like the reach of the 20" bar.)

You need a 0.325" drive sprocket/rim to run 0.325" chain. Stihl has introduced the NK 0.325 chain in Canada but I'm not sure if 0.325" 0.050 3003 mount bars are available

 

[Pioneer]

Mad professor, you have it backwards. You can run a picco chain on regular 3/8 sprockets but not the other way around. The depth of the driver's of a regular chain wouldn't allow it.
I'm running a PS chain on an Oregon power match bar and regular 3/8 drive sprocket, it works perfectly. The only concern is the width of the bar rails, they are too wide and I will have to dress them on occasion to remove the edges.

 

[Mad Professor]

Mad professor, you have it backwards. You can run a picco chain on regular 3/8 sprockets but not the other way around. The depth of the driver's of a regular chain wouldn't allow it.
I'm running a PS chain on an Oregon power match bar and regular 3/8 drive sprocket, it works perfectly. The only concern is the width of the bar rails, they are too wide and I will have to dress them on occasion to remove the edges.

WRONG!!!

I've been running 3/8 picco, stihl 63PMX chain for > 20 years now on my 066 for my sawmill.

The 3/8 picco chain pitch is the same as regular 3/8, but the driver chassis is different. The resulting mismatch with end up peening/damaging the chain drivers. You need a 3/8 picco bar with picco sprocket, and 3/8 picco drive sprocket. I had special 3/8 picco rims for my 066 made up by Danzco, now 6K products:

6K Products Chain saw sprockets

This has been discussed in great detail here on the Milling and Saw Mills forum

Here is the link to the thread, started by mtngun: Getting Serious about Lo Pro

There is a total of 226 replies. Read through it and educate yourself. I think a lot of the pictures may be missing, due to the site crash a while back

Here is a picture of a 7T 3/8 stihl rim and a 7T 3/8 picco rim by Danzco. Note the difference in diameters, due to chain chassis differences. 3/8 picco chain will mismatch 3/8 sprockets, and ride up in the driver teeth. Note Stihl packaging is mislabeled , it is a 7T rim

 

[president]

Hi all, I have a Stihl 026 with a ported muffler that I bought from Andy (Lakeside53) many years ago. I helped a friend cut down some trees last fall, and he took my bar and chain to a mutual friend to have it sharpened and trued. Well, I still haven't gotten them back, so I'm beginning to think about buying replacements. The bar was a regular Stihl Rollomatic 20" and the chain I used the most was 3/8" full comp, probably RS3 or similar. The saw has a 7-pin drive sprocket. It cut great when I wasn't hitting rocks and nails, but I'm a hot rodder so I'm always in search of better performance. Would I be better off with a 0.325" pitch narrow kerf bar and chain? How much narrower is a narrow kerf compared to standard? Can I run 0.325" with my current drive sprocket? Does anyone make a 20" x 0.050" bar for an 026? (Yes, it would balance better with an 18" bar, but I really like the reach of the 20" bar.)

In BC Canada 0.050 is the most common guage all of the way up to the 660.your saw will
preform the best with 325,in any gauge drivers.The drivers are only thick where they ride in
the rail space ,the cutters and links should be the same across the board

 

[Pioneer]

I'm running a spur sprocket, maybe that's why it works perfect? Been running it for a while now, and checked the drivers for irregularity, not even a hint. In any case the chain travel is perfectly smooth, no binding whatsoever. I also sat the chain in a non-Stihl 3/8 rim sprocket and it also fits perfectly. Maybe it's a Stihl sprocket issue which wouldn't surprise me. They seem to have their share of design flaws with their saws, but their chains are my favorite.

 

[82F100SWB]

Stihl's new .325 RS Pro .050 isn't just a .063 stepped down at the drivers like the old RS. Noticeably quicker on my ported 026.
Personally I prefer a 16 on an 026. I have an 18" .325 .050 setup and a 20" 3/8 .050, but that lives on my 660.

 

[NovaMan]

Let's be sure we're all on the same page. When I go to Stihl's website, I can find four different kinds of Picco chain: Picco Super (PS), Picco Super 3 (PS3), Picco Micro 3 (PM3), and Picco Micro Mini 3 (PMM3). Except for some really small stuff, they're all what Stihl calls 3/8" extended - none of them are 0.325" pitch. I can't find anything called Rapid Super Pro. I can find Rapid Super 3 (RS3) and several variations of Rapid Super in skip and/or square chisel, but nothing RS Pro. Now, that's only on Stihl's website - I can find RS Pro elsewhere on the internet. Is there also a 0.325 Picco available that isn't on Stihl's website?

Help me understand the big picture too. I started with a regular kerf 3/8 pitch chain. Switching to narrow kerf chain has two benefits that I know of: lower drag and less kerf loss. I don't mill, so kerf loss isn't an issue for me - lower drag and therefore higher cutting speed would be the desired benefit in my case. If I went NK but dropped down to 0.325 pitch, that would put more cutters in the wood, so wouldn't that negate the lower drag, therefore making my cutting speed the same but producing less kerf loss? What are the actual kerf widths? Stihl says 0.325 x 0.058 RS and RM chains have a 7.7mm (0.303) kerf, and the new 0.325 x 0.050 RS Pro has a 6.8mm (0.268) kerf, so roughly 12% less. But going from 3/8 to 0.325 should put 15% more cutters in the wood, right?

 

[esean]

Stihl RS Pro has apparently been available in Canada since last fall, but it's not yet on the U.S. website. I think "Picco" only refers to Stihl's 3/8" low-profile chains, RS Pro is a .325" narrow kerf chain.

 

[82F100SWB]

I thought I had a picture of the box from the first one I bought, but it must have been on my old phone, so I scared some up on the ibternet...
RSP started showing up last fall up here in place of the standard .050 chain when my dealer ordered. .050 is the standard up here anyway. I don't even know of a dealer that stocks .063, but the 23rs is only .050 on the driver below the tie straps, with the .063 chain body, where RSP is a true NK chain.

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

 

[Mad Professor]

I'm running a spur sprocket, maybe that's why it works perfect? Been running it for a while now, and checked the drivers for irregularity, not even a hint. In any case the chain travel is perfectly smooth, no binding whatsoever. I also sat the chain in a non-Stihl 3/8 rim sprocket and it also fits perfectly. Maybe it's a Stihl sprocket issue which wouldn't surprise me. They seem to have their share of design flaws with their saws, but their chains are my favorite.

The link I posted in the milling forum used to have pictures of all the wrong stuff with running picco/lo pro 3/8 chain on regular 3/8 sprockets.

Did you bother trying to read it?

It will explain everything and what people have done to make 3/8 picco rims for Med spline Stihl clutch drums. Some people took 0.404 rims and turned them down to required diameter to fit 3/8 picco chain. Now why would chainsaw millers do that if regular 3/8 rims work fine with picco chain?

Concerning a spur sprocket. Stihl makes a special 7T 3/8 picco spur sprocket for the 066/660, it's expensive in comparison to a replacement rim. Now why would Stihl do that if a regular 3/8 spur would work?

Until recently no one made 3/8 picco rims for the bigger Stihl saws. That's why I had Danzco make me a run of 3/8 picco rims. They now sell/stock them

 

[Pioneer]

Yes, I did read it and it seems there are other people who run it with no problems on their regular setup. In fact, I was just doing some cutting today with the combo and it is still working perfectly. So run what works for you, and I will run what works for me.

 

[Mad Professor]

Yes, I did read it and it seems there are other people who run it with no problems on their regular setup. In fact, I was just doing some cutting today with the combo and it is still working perfectly. So run what works for you, and I will run what works for me.

Take a new picco chain, new picco rim, and new standard 3/8 rim. Wrap the chain around the picco sprocket, it will mesh perfect with the rim, all they way around.

If you do the same with the standard 3/8 rim, after the first few drivers it will mismatch with the rim, as if the chain pitch was too long. It has to do with the difference in chassis in the two chains, the same tooth count 3/8 picco sprocket will have a larger diameter/circumference than a standard 3/8 sprocket. You can see this in the picture I posted

This is what happens on a saw, and there used to be pictures of this , in the thread I directed you to in the milling forum. There is a total of 226 posts on that thread, did you read them all?
This subject was beaten to death there , 3/8 picco chain on standard 3/8 hardware is not propper setup, the horse is dead.

 

[Mad Professor]

Double post