u just got your first pair of hooks a few months ago. i dont think u are under paid but what the hell do i know:yourock:
Young, Dumb & want the Bling!!
- Thread starter lxt
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Husky137
Addicted to ArboristSite
Why be offended? If the only thing you share with these other chowderheads is being white and twenty-something then why should you be bothered by them talking about useless people. Be proud of what you do and have more confidence in your own actions.
I dont really talk "bid" price on jobsite, sometimes a homeowner wants a bid & ill shoot out an estimate, the helps all ears then!! doing the math in their heads, LOL.
He is a good worker, annoying...yes, he is a very anxious kinda kid, you know.. sees 5 things needing done & jumps from one to another then to the next & so on, I have been working on getting him to slow down, think, prioritize & finish one thing first before moving on!!
Today it seems they figure things out $$$ wise, when I started at $9.59 hr I never thought about climbing 30, 40 or 60+ ft in the air, trimming the tree & then coming down & going.....Damn I did that for $9 an hr....I deserve more than that!! today thats their thought process & if they cant make it working for ya.....then they`ll make it as a competitor working against ya!
I dont know if he will stay or not, I hope he does...he`s really a good kid just his mouth...if I could permanently tape it shut I would be fine! although im sure if I teach him a little he will be one of those who knowsitall & no matter how much you pay him.......its not enough "Bling" so I will either waste my time teaching him or leave him as a groundie untill his thought process changes & if not??? Find someone worth teaching. I dont know!
LXT.........
He is a good worker, annoying...yes, he is a very anxious kinda kid, you know.. sees 5 things needing done & jumps from one to another then to the next & so on, I have been working on getting him to slow down, think, prioritize & finish one thing first before moving on!!
Today it seems they figure things out $$$ wise, when I started at $9.59 hr I never thought about climbing 30, 40 or 60+ ft in the air, trimming the tree & then coming down & going.....Damn I did that for $9 an hr....I deserve more than that!! today thats their thought process & if they cant make it working for ya.....then they`ll make it as a competitor working against ya!
I dont know if he will stay or not, I hope he does...he`s really a good kid just his mouth...if I could permanently tape it shut I would be fine! although im sure if I teach him a little he will be one of those who knowsitall & no matter how much you pay him.......its not enough "Bling" so I will either waste my time teaching him or leave him as a groundie untill his thought process changes & if not??? Find someone worth teaching. I dont know!
LXT.........
juststumps
ArboristSite Guru
A grading and landscape company that I do some contracting for has been having more and more problems with the 20 something white boys. The funny thing is that the heir apparent, with whom I deal, is one too. He is cut from a different cloth though.
One fellow sees the owner and son taking off to look at another job and demands to know why they are leaving when there is work to do
They have some large commercial plowing accounts and a few days ago a newhire started telling the younger owner (Adam) of the company that they were plowing all wrong. The owner listens for a few minutes then says to do it his way, the employees response was "you plow like a crackhead!".
Adam replies "Well your going to plow like your unemployed pretty soon". No effect whatsoever.
3 years ago he did not believe me that 3 white kids worked like one Hispanic immigrant. Now 75% of the staff is Latino and most "no habla"
that isn't a 100% solution... i got a guat co worker,
legal, hard worker....but he's dumb as a bag of hammers... he'll run a dull saw smoking thru a log,(you can't tell him, that it's F'ed up, in his mind it is still cutting somewhat, so it's good !! )
he's from a third world country,,, so his safety practices are really lacking... he does stuff like they do at home..... way unsafe... (free climbing small tree with a chain saw, for example)( standing on the top of a step ladder, with a chain saw )
thinks he's saving the company money, when he tries to fix something , and it takes over an hour to fix it,,,( something that costs $8.00 )....
speaks english fairly well, but you have to watch, because sometimes it doesn't get thru...
last but least, he's pig headed !!! won't listen .... had to put a rod in a tree.. he grabbed a 1/2 inch bit, and the extension.. the only problem, is the extension is 5/8, where you chuck the bit...told him it wouldn't work several times,, nicely..in front of the boss he blew up. screaming.. "LET ME TRY TO DO IT" the ignorant idiot tried it.. it didn't work !!!
for low tech work, that may be the way to go,,,,, BUT THERE IS A REASON::::: THAT NONE OF THOSE CONTRIES HAVE A SPACE PROGRAM !!!!!!
PS::: for some reason they can't get the bottle rockets and the roman candle boosters in sync , to get the 64 VW beetle space rover off the ground...
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And the US achieved theirs by getting a German. It has more to do with the resources and priorities of the country.
Being the father of a young 20 year old, I see him and his friends and have formed an opinion on their work ethic. Since these kids have been old enough to work, the economy in this area has been rocking. So, if they don't like this job, then there are lots of other companies crying for employees, and finding a new job is easy. Plus all you ever hear from trainers and others who view the job market from a long term perspective is how we are going to need thousands of new hires as the boomers retire. This gives the idea that if you treat me like a 'slave' there is always somewhere else.
Another factor is the perks given to people particularily in the high tech sector, the free food, pool tables, parties etc.
It gives a poor notion to those kids with little work experience.
However, I think that crappy economy and loss of jobs is going to be a good thing for these kids. It will put a higher value on the jobs they have because there isn't another one around the corner, it's really the unemployment line.
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
A grading and landscape company that I do some contracting for has been having more and more problems with the 20 something white boys. The funny thing is that the heir apparent, with whom I deal, is one too. He is cut from a different cloth though.
One fellow sees the owner and son taking off to look at another job and demands to know why they are leaving when there is work to do
They have some large commercial plowing accounts and a few days ago a newhire started telling the younger owner (Adam) of the company that they were plowing all wrong. The owner listens for a few minutes then says to do it his way, the employees response was "you plow like a crackhead!".
Adam replies "Well your going to plow like your unemployed pretty soon". No effect whatsoever.
3 years ago he did not believe me that 3 white kids worked like one Hispanic immigrant. Now 75% of the staff is Latino and most "no habla"
So a traitor company ehhhhhhh?
OLD CHIPMONK
ArboristSite Guru
Hey Rope ! Next week I start my new job, as a salesman for Wm. Martinez Tree Care ! If ya can't beat-um then join-um !
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Not if they are legals.
I'm a NorthEuro mutt, Sanborn's got here in 1626 fleeing religious persecution in England, Bell was indentured then soldiered in the revolution, Larson and Jones came in the late 1800's. All of them needed work, those who their children married came over needing work.
If they are legal and want to work and follow direction, then that is the American Way.
Winnowing the chaff of these slacker kids just to find a few that will make a decent laborer is for the birds.
I have a buddy named Pena, who owns Tree Pro's. Second generation American, hard worker and honest business man. I've no problem working for him.
What is the difference between discrimination of a white man or a brown man?
Yes I ma truly being prejudiced against white kids, because I've seen too many of slackers. I'm favorably prejudiced towards Hispanics because I've seen so many of them that want to do a good job for good pay.
This iss my experiance, if you are a hardworking 20ish white boy finding it hard to get a job, blame your peers for effing it up for you.
the fact is the top doggs get the top money. certs, credits and other licenses mean very little to the men who rig down the big wood with there life on the line. most of the bling jobs are done in the back yards from the smaller private company's. lots of top climbers dont even have a drivers licenses
+ 1 on that. Alot of the bigger companies dont have the skilled workers to do some of the jobs I've done. Certs dont matted when its time for the big riggin. Most of the real good treemen work for themselves, though there are alot also that work for those real good well established companies. Those are the type of worker I cant afford yet due to fear of running out of work and them leaving. I can always find something for a groundman to do in the season - climbers get attitudes and all want to think they are the best before actually putting in thier time. I hate it when some greenhorn tells me how to do something I've been doing all my adult life, it becomes some sort of sick competion with these guys almost. Had a bucket queen that thought he was so precious... its like: DUDE! YOU DONT EVEN KNOW HOW TO TIE A PORTAWRAP ON A TREE PROPERLY! That didnt stop him from showing my groundie how to do it wrong though - and then catching attitude when I said it was wrong. Thats the phychologist part of the owners job, one of the worst parts.
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
Not if they are legals.
I'm a NorthEuro mutt, Sanborn's got here in 1626 fleeing religious persecution in England, Bell was indentured then soldiered in the revolution, Larson and Jones came in the late 1800's. All of them needed work, those who their children married came over needing work.
If they are legal and want to work and follow direction, then that is the American Way.
Winnowing the chaff of these slacker kids just to find a few that will make a decent laborer is for the birds.
I have a buddy named Pena, who owns Tree Pro's. Second generation American, hard worker and honest business man. I've no problem working for him.
What is the difference between discrimination of a white man or a brown man?
Yes I ma truly being prejudiced against white kids, because I've seen too many of slackers. I'm favorably prejudiced towards Hispanics because I've seen so many of them that want to do a good job for good pay.
This iss my experiance, if you are a hardworking 20ish white boy finding it hard to get a job, blame your peers for effing it up for you.
If you are a 20 ish finding it hard to get work it
was most likely your parents that failed you or
it could be you wont work for the same illegals
do! It seems more a problem in metro areas to
me country boys seem to know work is inevitable.
Legals ok do not have issues accept learn our
language for safety and basic communication.
Its the media and the parenting I think. They all want to be hip hop stars now it seems. The parents are so locked down with all these modern laws that they'll get sent to prison or worse yet "anger management" classes if they deliver a good old fashioned can of whoopa$$ like they probably need.
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
Yup they did not have my father and the one rule that
he meant, son I brought your azz into this world and I would
have no problem taking you out of it should you make it necessary.
Sure I screwed up and sometimes I got away with it but most times
it hurt my azz and pride. He would light you up in walmart it did not
matter what no one thought or said and I almost always had it coming!
I have a lot of biases, but I will not admit to any prejudices. It matters NOT what color skin a man has, but it makes a great deal of difference what society he comes from, who his parents were, and how he was raised.
Some of my biases:
1. Inner city urban youth: they were not often raised to get up early and go to work. Black or white, they tend to be snot nosed about doing difficult, dirty work, and tend to be less honest and forthright. Parents make all the difference here, and absence of a father is almost proof that they will be useless.
Since this is my primary labor pool, I am often dissappointed in who I have to hire.
2. Farm kids tend to be the opposite of #1, although finding them in the city is difficult. [I am in the city] Look out for rebellion/useless problems.
3. Workers from poor cultures (think mexicans, guatamalans, etc.) tend to be hard working and honest, if they didn't come from an urban area. There are certainly exceptions! They also tend to be very rigid about learning new things, and they also don't seem to want to become part of our society or culture.
Don't look for most of them to try to be anything more than the sweat on the end of a shovel. I consider that to be a sad event; an opportunity missed for them. They also seem to want as much as they can get ($$), but are not willing to make long term or loyalty commitments. I suppose that is because they feel the same way about their employers loyalties.
I have only hired a few illegals for more than a day at a time, and they were fine gentleman, except they still had no loyalties to me. Even after 3 years of employment, we parted company because they would skip to another job in a heartbeat. Day workers picked up "from under the bridge" are a mixed bag of problems, but they are ALWAYS better than calling any of the many labor pools in KC and getting the drunks they send you.
Some of my biases:
1. Inner city urban youth: they were not often raised to get up early and go to work. Black or white, they tend to be snot nosed about doing difficult, dirty work, and tend to be less honest and forthright. Parents make all the difference here, and absence of a father is almost proof that they will be useless.
Since this is my primary labor pool, I am often dissappointed in who I have to hire.
2. Farm kids tend to be the opposite of #1, although finding them in the city is difficult. [I am in the city] Look out for rebellion/useless problems.
3. Workers from poor cultures (think mexicans, guatamalans, etc.) tend to be hard working and honest, if they didn't come from an urban area. There are certainly exceptions! They also tend to be very rigid about learning new things, and they also don't seem to want to become part of our society or culture.
Don't look for most of them to try to be anything more than the sweat on the end of a shovel. I consider that to be a sad event; an opportunity missed for them. They also seem to want as much as they can get ($$), but are not willing to make long term or loyalty commitments. I suppose that is because they feel the same way about their employers loyalties.
I have only hired a few illegals for more than a day at a time, and they were fine gentleman, except they still had no loyalties to me. Even after 3 years of employment, we parted company because they would skip to another job in a heartbeat. Day workers picked up "from under the bridge" are a mixed bag of problems, but they are ALWAYS better than calling any of the many labor pools in KC and getting the drunks they send you.
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Pdq, I've been thinking about trying to get some farm boy next year. I just gotta figure out what paper will reach them.. I know we got em around here.
I call em hillbillies - big tired flatbeds with chewing tobacco, only hillbillies i tried so far, one was a druggie and the other was a toothless simpleton...so I guess I kind of quit on them. Maybe next year I'll broaden my search.
Rope, back to the parenting thing, +1. These boys dont know what work is because thier parents are either too soft or the father was non-existent. I'm not ashamed to admit that I quit school, but when I did my parents said "if you quit school your gonna have to work"! What did I do? I found the hardest job I could: treework. Showed them, and have done quite well for myself as well. I just think people have lost thier drive - and brains lately.
I had one of them yo yo fiddy cent losers (white guy, Irish) three or four years ago. It was the middle of winter and if he chipped ten 3" branches he would have to sit down all pink faced and swill some water down - what a joke! In fact at the end he was getting a loan from his sister (who had her own "biddiness") supposedly so that he could "buy a bucket truck and start his biddiness, you know, just doing smaller trees and yardwork". Of course it never happened, he got kicked around the utility treework scene for a while, they even gave him a bucket truck for a couple of weeks till he couldnt show up for work, and then canned the retard. I just heard he joined the army, lol. No wonder its taking us so long over there.
I call em hillbillies - big tired flatbeds with chewing tobacco, only hillbillies i tried so far, one was a druggie and the other was a toothless simpleton...so I guess I kind of quit on them. Maybe next year I'll broaden my search.
Rope, back to the parenting thing, +1. These boys dont know what work is because thier parents are either too soft or the father was non-existent. I'm not ashamed to admit that I quit school, but when I did my parents said "if you quit school your gonna have to work"! What did I do? I found the hardest job I could: treework. Showed them, and have done quite well for myself as well. I just think people have lost thier drive - and brains lately.
I had one of them yo yo fiddy cent losers (white guy, Irish) three or four years ago. It was the middle of winter and if he chipped ten 3" branches he would have to sit down all pink faced and swill some water down - what a joke! In fact at the end he was getting a loan from his sister (who had her own "biddiness") supposedly so that he could "buy a bucket truck and start his biddiness, you know, just doing smaller trees and yardwork". Of course it never happened, he got kicked around the utility treework scene for a while, they even gave him a bucket truck for a couple of weeks till he couldnt show up for work, and then canned the retard. I just heard he joined the army, lol. No wonder its taking us so long over there.
treemandan
Tree Freak
You really have to watch how you start your paragraphs buddy.
Whatever, who cares. Where ya been dan? get that spill cleaned up yet?
treemandan
Tree Freak
Did you know America holds a lottery? If you win you get to be a citizen? Hey, do you pay WC on subs?
Why do you? If you do I wouldnt pay them too much because at that point they are basically employees no?
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
It depends on whether the sub has a policy (many carry W/C with a self exclusion, some call it a "fake comp") or if the primaries policy requires that the sub carries it.
For those who require that I go onto their W/C records, I bill a portion at industry standard wage, and the rest as equipment rental.
Yeah "fake comp", good way of describing it. I ran into that a while back when this lady's ins. co. wanted me to have comp on myself - her agent said he could hook me up for 1000$ but I wouldnt actually be covered if anything happened? WTF is the point of that I thought. We ended up using my subs comp to get the job anyway. Now I have comp, just not on myself.
