28" Bar comparison stihl cannon total tsumura sugihara

[redbull660]

finally got around to editing all these together. Let me know what you think. Thanks.

Bars tested -
28" Stihl 063 regular weight bar
28" Cannon Super Bar Plus (wide tip)
28" Total Super Bar .050
28" Stihl 050 light weight bar
28" Sugihara light bar .050
28" Tsumura 063 light weight bar

introduction...





- Differences in temperature after cutting



Jug/cyl temps -
Stihl ES reg bar 063 - 297 F
Cannon super bar plus - 260 F
Total super bar .050 - 265 F
Stihl 050 Light bar - 285 F
Sugihara 050 light bar - 275 F
Tsumura Light 063 - 262 F

temp of bar just after spikes (mount area) -
Stihl ES reg bar 063 - 160 F
Cannon super bar plus - 143 F
Total super bar .050 - 149 F
Stihl 050 Light bar - 154 F
Sugihara 050 light bar - 130 F
Tsumura Light 063 - 132 F


mid bar temp
Stihl ES reg bar 063 - 125 F
Cannon super bar plus - 117 F
Total super bar .050 - 119 F
Stihl 050 Light bar - 120 F
Sugihara 050 light bar - 116 F
Tsumura Light 063 - 112 F


Sprocket Nose -
Stihl ES reg bar 063 - 176 F
Cannon super bar plus - 80 F
Total super bar .050 - 82 F
Stihl 050 Light bar - 165 F
Sugihara 050 light bar - 101 F
Tsumura Light 063 - 77 F


Differences in balance/handling?



Difference in tune?



Differences in bar stiffness

 

[redbull660]

Difference in oiling?



Difference in Time / Speed ?



Bar............ Small Oak...Bigger Oak..Rock Elm
Stihl ES reg bar 063 - 9.0 sec 17.8 sec 23.7 sec
Cannon super bar plus - 8.9sec 17.6 sec 20.8 sec
Total super bar .050 - 9.1 sec 19.0 sec 22.6 sec
Stihl 050 Light bar - 9.1 sec 19.6 sec 22.4 sec
Sugihara 050 light bar - 10.0 sec 20.7 sec 23.9sec
Tsumura Light 063 - 8.8sec 19.0 sec 21.4 sec
MS 461R with Tsumura light - 9.9sec nocut 25.0 sec* 3.5 sec slower than 660R with same bar.

Cannon and Tsumura took the cake. Surprised how slow sugi was.

 

[Deets066]

Cool comparison! The cannon may be heavy but I bet it would outlast em all by a long shot.

 

[mdavlee]

Cool comparison! The cannon may be heavy but I bet it would outlast em all by a long shot.

The tsumura are just as good or better for wear from my use.

 

[Trx250r180]

What kind of bar tip is on the cannon?

 

[Big_Wood]

The tsumura are just as good or better for wear from my use.

you mean cutting 30 cookies a year? while i really like the tsumura's they still ain't no cannon. they are better for wear resistance then many other bars though. seems they are exceeding the price of cannons too. i got a tsumura i bought late last year that is ugly as sin already and got some cannons that are still looking pretty dang good after way more use. i thought for sure that clear coat on the tsumura was gonna hold up better then the black but it didn't even come close.

 

[sawfun]

I bent a 36" Sugi Hara lightweight bar and have no idea how as it was never pulled or pried with. I have a 36" Tsumura lightweigh on the saw now and we shall see how that goes. I have a 36" lightweight that I have used a good deal with no issues and had an Oregon 36" lightweight that, while the inserts poped out, was pried with and did heavy stump work, but it never bent. I would not buy another Sugihara bar no matter how hard the rails are. Any more new 36" bars WILL be Cannon's.

 

[mdavlee]

you mean cutting 30 cookies a year? [emoji23] while i really like the tsumura's they still ain't no cannon. they are better for wear resistance then many other bars though. seems they are exceeding the price of cannons too. i got a tsumura i bought late last year that is ugly as sin already and got some cannons that are still looking pretty dang good after way more use. i thought for sure that clear coat on the tsumura was gonna hold up better then the black but it didn't even come close.

Milling mostly. The clear doesnt last real long.

I've got around 900 bd ft milled on a cannon, tsumura, and one oregon. The oregon had a slight burr after one day. The others I'll have to check as I was keeping up with the bd ft per saw and number of cuts.

 

[7sleeper]

AS at it's best!!!

Great wright up! Thanks!

7

 

[Deets066]

so far the cannon I have had worn better than any other bar I've owned. I have not run a tsumura yet though.

Just waitin for them lightweight cannons to come out

 

[Moparmyway]

Seems the tsumura could be an advantage in a cant race !!

Nice job putting everything together Red Bull !!

 

[redbull660]

What kind of bar tip is on the cannon?

Stihl wide tip - Cannon uses the stihl wide tip for the super bar PLUS, but you pay heavily for the bar $$$ lol

*** Also I thought it was very interesting that the Stihl wide tip on the cannon ran at 80 F degrees. But if you put the same tip on a Stihl bar it'll run at 176 F approx 100 degrees hotter! ( from my testing. )

you mean cutting 30 cookies a year? while i really like the tsumura's they still ain't no cannon. they are better for wear resistance then many other bars though. seems they are exceeding the price of cannons too. i got a tsumura i bought late last year that is ugly as sin already and got some cannons that are still looking pretty dang good after way more use. i thought for sure that clear coat on the tsumura was gonna hold up better then the black but it didn't even come close.

If you watch the Temp segment at the end of it, is the tsumura temps. Interesting thing there is that where the clear coat has come off is the very coolest spots on the bar... I think it would be very interesting to temp read a tsumura bar with all the clear coat taken off!

Seems the tsumura could be an advantage in a cant race !!

Nice job putting everything together Red Bull !!

thanks man. yeah took about 3+hrs just to edit all the short clips together etc. but i think it turned out good.

Seems the tsumura could be an advantage in a cant race !!

Nice job putting everything together Red Bull !!

Considering all the data - I really like the Tsumura. Cannon if you want a heavy bar.

My next venture is doing 3/8 vs 404 on the 661. Tsumura runs both 3/8 and 404 so I got 1 of each in 20" 24" 28" 30" and 36". Got my 3/8 and 404 Stihl chains as well...just needs to warm up a little.

Thanks.

 

[CR888]

l only have one nice cannon....l possibly have some re-branded canada made oregon cannons but they are the best lMO for overall strength. l have the 25" hotsaw fatbelly roller tip cannon and its very well made. But there are other ways to measure how good bars are other than just strength. Light bars have really changed the game with bars changing the whole feel of saws running them. For me unless its for a top handle or small saw, 063 is all l will buy. l find 050 loves getting chips jammed between the rails, is hard to clean out and wont oil as well as 063. l even notice this with mid saws running 325 050. l like chainsaw bars but price rarely dictates performance but definately influences quality/life span.

 

[Shawn Curry]

Thanks for putting all of this together @redbull660. I found this thread while looking for a comparison of bar weights for Tsumura vs Sugihara. I was leaning towards the Tsumura because of the price, but I didn't know if there were other factors, or a significant weight savings, to justify the additional cost of the Sugi. Sounds like the Tsumura was a better bar all the way around for my needs.

I ended buying the 36" Tsumura Light from @thechainsawguy's ebay store. Thanks AS community!

 

[blsnelling]

you mean cutting 30 cookies a year? while i really like the tsumura's they still ain't no cannon. they are better for wear resistance then many other bars though. seems they are exceeding the price of cannons too. i got a tsumura i bought late last year that is ugly as sin already and got some cannons that are still looking pretty dang good after way more use. i thought for sure that clear coat on the tsumura was gonna hold up better then the black but it didn't even come close.

So, you're a PSP now? You're judging this bar by how the clear coat holds up? I'm so disappointed. I'm going to have to report you. Hey @LowVolt !

 

[LowVolt]

Clear coat not holding up to make the bar look shiny and new? That is a new level of PSP I had not thought of before. Thanks @westcoaster90 .

 

[redbull660]

I took my clear coat off to see if it would run even cooler. It does.

The inserts look hot but it's the metal behind them that is hot. You can put your finger on the inserts.

 

[Derf]

Really appreciate the level of exploration in this thread. A great little experiment.

A comment and a question. Seems to me that most of the advantages to lower measured temperatures and faster cutting speeds can be attributed to reduced friction from the chain in the rails/nose.
Is that due to smoother grind, tighter tolerances to spec, better nose bearings, smaller grain structure, harder rails, etc? Maybe all those things, some weighted more than others.

Question : on the Tsumura RW bar, are the inserts epoxy or aluminum? If they are aluminum I would think they look warmer because they are dissipating heat better than the surrounding steel, so they look hotter. If they are epoxy I don't know why they are hotter.

 

[SawTroll]

The inserts are some kind of epoxy.

 

[Philbert]

Very interesting tests. I would not have thought of all of these variables / factors to measure.

Philbert