Weak MS180 Construction

[blsnelling]

Do you remember this picture?

This happened when I used a plastic piston stop on my MS180 and tried to remove the flywheel nut. So I swore that I'd never use a piston stop again and would always use rope in the cylinder.

Tonight my Dad brought his MS180 over. A different saw than before. It wasn't hardly oiling at all. I wanted to look at the drive spring behind the clutch. So I put rope in the cylinder and used a scrench to turn the clutch. Here is the result.

Needless to say, I'm not too impressed at this point. Am I doing something wrong here? In the future on these little saws, I think I'll use an impact to take the flywheel nut off. Then after the flywheel's remove, I'll use the impact to remove the clutch and just let the piston turn over. Obviously the piston and cylinder are both too weak to take the torque required for disassembly. You have to take the flywheel off before the clutch or you'll take the weak little keyway out of the flywheel. Yes, that happen on my saw as well. Give me a pro saw already! If this thing just wasn't so light.

If I'm using poor technique, point it out. I'm tired of this.

Almost forgot. The oiler is still broke. I've never messed with the oiler on one of these. What do I look for?

Anyone got a MS180/018 crankshaft? 170 will not work.

 

[Jacob J.]

And you can see how the connecting rod was obviously shot-peened for extra torsional strength...

 

[Rookie1]

Dude you are a brute! Just kidding. Ill bet they arent very rugged. I have always used a 3/8 air impact to remove both flywheel nut and clutch. Never seen the rope trick till I started hanging out here. I would say weak construction.

 

[Lakeside53]

Hmmmm.... Taken many apart.. never broken a piston or bent a crank...


Seems like you need to stay with the big saws:greenchainsaw:

 

[Butch(OH)]

When using rope get enough in the cylinder to get the piston down away from TDC. The closer to TDC it is the more stress is put on the rod at "X" torque. The least amount of stress to the rod would be with the crankthrow at 90degrees. Other than that I dont have a clue, have you ever broken an anvil?? LOL:greenchainsaw:

 

[Jacob J.]

Yeah those little saws aren't built for major servicing...3/8ths impact wrench with spark plug still installed is your safest bet...or one of those 3/8ths butterfly air wrenches...


A silver-level technician I used to work with did something similar- and the customer was standing right there watching us. He used an impact wrench on the clutch and stripped the shoulder of the lug on the clutch. Without saying a word, he walked over and grabbed a new saw off the shelf, gassed it up, started it, shut it off, and handed it to the customer.

 

[chainsawwhisperer]

You could just mill 3/8 of an inch off the bottom of the cylinder to get your compression back up to spec.

Seriously, that sucks, after reading your piston stop experience, I swore that I would not use one. So I stick with the rope method. I used rope on my MS170 with no ill effects. It's hard to belive that they are made so cheaply, I've used the rope method on cheaper poulan/craftsman and Homelites, and never had that happen.
My friend you need to stick with pro-saws, and leave the cheap S#$t to
hacks like me

 

[woodchuck361]

You now have a nice paper weight. I hope you have a desk to put it on. That is amazing! I would have though they were a bit stronger. I would definitely go with the impact from now on. I use my Mikita 14.4 with no problems ....Yet. Good luck.

 

[gmax]

I used both methods rattle gun and the rope, never seen anything like that before, no point paying extra for Stihl if that's how weak there built.
Unless this is a joke?

 

[Jacob J.]

I used both methods rattle gun and the rope, never seen anything like that before, no point paying extra for Stihl if that's how weak there built.
Unless this is a joke?

I was gonna make a crack about how Brad could tell his dad that he Snellerized it, but that wouldn't be fair. I'm sorry, Brad.

 

[blsnelling]

These little saws seem to run well, but like JJ said, they must not be made to be serviced much. I'll still sing it praises as a nice little runner, but I am disappointed in the construction. It's another one of those, "you get what you pay for". I didn't pay for a pro saw, I didn't get a pro saw simply as that. For most people, you run these until they break and buy a new one.

Now what should I be looking for on the oiler? It puts little to nothing out when running the saw with the bar and cover off. That's with winter grade oil too.

 

[Lakeside53]

Dead simple oiler... if the worm is engaging, the casing below the pump isn't gouged out by the drum, and the hose is connected to the tank, it will work.

Check the hose...

 

[blsnelling]

I was gonna make a crack about how Brad could tell his dad that he Snellerized it, but that wouldn't be fair. I'm sorry, Brad.

Nuttin' to be sorry about. I definately Snellerized this saw:greenchainsaw:

 

[blsnelling]

Dead simple oiler... if the worm is engaging, the casing below the pump isn't gouged out by the drum, and the hose is connected to the tank, it will work.

Check the hose...

Gears look good, case looks good. I'll pull the hose later and see if it's clogged. It's trying to oil but isn't doing much more than spitting. And to think this was supposed to be nothing more than installing a new bar and chain!

 

[Lakeside53]

Spitting often means it's sucking air. Check the hose for cracks.

 

[windthrown]

Wow, I have been using a rope or rag to freeze the pistons in the 210-250 (1123 Still line) saws that I have worked on for a few years. They cannot be much bigger than the 180's. No problems like you have there. I was going to get a metal piston stop from Bailey's, but I guess the rope idea is better. I will use less force on them in future too, and keep the piston as low as possible by jamming in a lot of rope or cloth (which I tend to do anyway). I have found thet the flywheel keys tend to shear off on these little saws too. At least on the 1123 line.

The oiler on these looks like the ones on the 1123 saws. There is little to them, and should not fail other than from being sheared if the clutch grenades. They are chromed brass. Usually what happens is that the opening at the bottom of the pump gets clogged with sawdust. I am not sure how to get to it on a 180, but on the 1123 you pull the plastic elbow off at the base of the saw under the top handle. Blow out the area below the pump with air and use a paper clip wire to clean out the gap at the side of the oil pump where it draws oil in through. I have had them "air sputter" on me when they were trying to draw oil in, but could not becasue of tiny sawdust buildup at the base of the pump. Also check the filter on the intake.

 

[epicklein22]

WTF, that sucks Brad. I stick as much rope as I can when removing clutch/flywheel nut. BTW, I am picking up an 018 this weekend. Supposively needs carb work......I have been running into some people leading me on lately.

 

[brages]

Do you remember this picture:

021 from this thread - http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?p=1141999

 

[blsnelling]

Same exact thing. I had a LOT of rope in the cylinder as well.

 

[teacherman]

I have used my metal piston stop on a number of saws with no ill effect. FOr clutch removal I load a 19 mm box end wrench over pretty hard to the right, then whack it with a small plastic mallet. Third whack usually opens it up. Never fragged a piston or bent a crank, to my knowledge......

Oh Brad, you masterful brute! You sure you didnt lighten the con rod a bit too much when modding the saw? (I know, I know, I just had to say that.)

Sorry to hear of your misfortune on the 180. Maybe it was from that batch of rods that Stihl bought from the Shanghai Pig Iron and Pot Metal Machine Parts Werke, a subsidiary of Zama............