hand filing

clearance · Mar 25, 2005

How many people hand file their saws without any guide, just by eye, and file the rakers by eye as well? This question isn't for the weekend wood cutter or casual user. The reason is, do you think it is possible to do as good of a job freehand, as with a machine or guide if you do it all the time, year after year?

Crazy Canuck · Mar 25, 2005

I used to do it all the time. Still do in a pinch. I can get a decent sharpen that way but not nearly as good as with a guide. Getting the right angle is no problem by eye with eexperience but getting the right depth is another story. Rakers I always do by eye, usually because I'm to lazy to go looking for the gage.

Ax-man · Mar 25, 2005

I think hand filing is the only way to go, I have always done it by eye, including the depth gauges. Once you get a mental picture of what a sharp cutter is suppose to look like it comes easy with pratice, same with the depth gauges as to when they start to look high and need to be lowered.

Larry

Kneejerk Bombas · Mar 25, 2005

I filed cutters free hand for years, but always used a gauge for rakers, unless in a pinch. I thought it was real good and it was for the most part, but using the simple guides is so much more consistent and when it comes down to it, easier, why not use them?
I never met a tree guy yet that didn't think he was really a good filer, yet I have not seen a good filing job by any of them. What does that tell you?
The most important part is smooth, consistent cutting. Most guys think if it grabs like heck, that's good, but it should cut smooth and fast, grab and pull sucks.
My point is that you can adjust the gauge to cut to your parameters, and then every cutter and raker is exactly the same. If you file free hand, it will be inconsistent, no matter what kind of robot you think you are.

DDM · Mar 25, 2005

We File all of ours by hand.Actually my wife files them.

Stumper · Mar 26, 2005

I file freehand. I have a couple of shop grinders and various gizmos for sharpening but I seldom use them.

Ax-man · Mar 26, 2005

These threads have come up before, can we get a few definitions.

When we say freehand, do we mean just using the file by itself or using what I call a file holder , which is double beveled or V shaped, with the 30 and 35 degree marks on it. In a matter of speaking this is some what of a guide, but your still filing freehand.

A guide to me is something that is bolted or clamped to the bar.

Larry

Stumper · Mar 26, 2005

Agreed Larry. I like a beveled handle file holder that allows a handy angle check. Index lines on the teeth really make holding the proper angles easy. I can hand file very well but Mike is right that inconsistencies do occur with freehand filing. Those inconsistencies can get a better run away from you if you are hurrying and don't have easy references and indexers. If I take my time on a chain and use care I get wonderful results. If I just hit a nail or grown in rock with only one side of the chain things are likely to be less than perfect when I hurry to make the saw cut for 2 more cuts to finish the job.

Tree Machine · Mar 26, 2005

A good start is to clamp the bar in a vise.

I think of freehand as using a file on which no guide mechanism is attached; just the file and a handle.

Lumberjack · Mar 26, 2005

I free hand the file and use a guage on the rakers.

When in the field I will make a plunge cut to hold the bar and put the rear handle between my legs.

Using a vice makes it almost too easy

.

Tree Machine · Mar 26, 2005

I use an angle grinder on the rakers when I'm near the garage and have electricity. I don't recommend this method for those not comfortable using an 11,000 rpm handheld grinder. It's much faster than a flat file and it's pretty easy to keep them consistent. Just do one, the same as the next, the same as the next, and so on. Get the first couple right, you get em all right. Especially useful on the 24 and 36" chains.

I'll hand file the rakers on the 16" chains because the time savings in using a handheld angle grinder isn't that significant. The rakers aren't as thick a gauge as on the bigger chains and file fairly easy by hand.

Sometimes when using a flat file on rakers, I create this vibration that rattles the fillings in my teeth, like fingernails down a chalkboard. This is primarily why I went to using the angle grinder. The swiftness and speed was just a side bonus.

Lumberjack · Mar 26, 2005

How do you keep the depth consistant with an angle grinder? Get into a rythm bumping the grinder or what?

Tree Machine · Mar 26, 2005

You pay attention

Tree Machine said:
Just do one, the same as the next, the same as the next, and so on. Get the first couple right, you get em all right.

Rhythm, feel, mojo. Yea, that's the stuff. <i>Light touch</i> is more the key than anything.

<b>Be safe</b>. Doing this requires eye protection, face protection and ear protection. I wear leather welding gloves to protect the hands. Full helmet with face guard AND glasses. This is my formal dress for doing the chipper knives, too.

These 4" grinders whirr at really high speed and can be dangerous.

Also, I use a cutting wheel, which is not as thick as the grinding wheel.

Lumberjack · Mar 26, 2005

Not to sound unsafe but thats alot of gear for just a 4" grinder.

Around here we wear eye protection, hearing protection and gloves.

You think a 4" grinder is mean, try running a 7" with a motor the size of a MS200 working in pecarious situations.

Tree Machine · Mar 26, 2005

Safety geek

EEK! A 7" grinder would intimidate me.

Yes, I look like a spaceman when using the grinder, but it gives me a sense of security in feeling safe that I can concentrate and focus on the task at hand without the risk of getting unnecessarily injured.

I only grind the rakers down mebbe twice in the life of any given chain; once when fairly new, and again when fairly old.

I try to wear a particle mask, too, because of the carborundum and metal dust that gets thrown off.

I think the main reason many guys have trouble hand-filing is that the saw is unsecured. As Lumberjack says,

Using a vice makes it almost too easy

I see it as the key to filing consistently; that, and having a fairly fresh file is really nice. A file guide on the file gets in my way. I like just a tad deeper gullet and an authoritative hook, as well as the rakers knocked down a bit. This is great for mid-power and big dog saws, but not so much for the top-handles.

Small saws are more sensitive to this chain treatment, as the chattering and grabbiness and stalled chain digs can't be overcome by sheer power.

newb · Mar 26, 2005

Just a note to all using a grinder versus a file. From my Tool making years if your grinding your chain your creating heat and anealing (softening) it. I have found the chain last longer if you file. I have the Stihl bench mount set-up but would like to find a good way to dress a chain in the field.

Kneejerk Bombas · Mar 26, 2005

Whenever some yahoo grinds my chain and pushes to hard with the grinder (instead of making several very light taps), the cutter gets discolored and so hard I can't file it. I have to grind past the discoloring and then I can file it again. What's up with that?

SteveBullman · Mar 26, 2005

customers are constantly showing me chains they have had sharpened up "professionally" at the local saw shop. ive yet to see one thats done well. they've always been cut into too deep, or cut into the links or something. i think doing it by hand is the only way to go.......and i'm married so i'd know

Stumper · Mar 26, 2005

Jim, I know you are both a rebel who is willing to approach tasks in unconventional ways and a person who obsesses about doing things correctly and efficiently. Lowering rakers twice in the life of a chain will get you by but you aren't cutting at optimum efficiency for much of the time. It is time to experiment and reevaluate my friend. I know what you mean about file chatter. It isn't totally avoidable but a fine cut, high quality file really helps. A subtle depth gauge reduction every couple of sharpenings will allow you to maintain optimum cutting efficiency. I prefer a file for ease of control. A bench style chain grinder allows you to set a stop and control the depth gauge setting. A grinding wheel ina Dremel tool will work but requires frequent stops to regauge the work. I won't argue YOUR ability to be consistent with the angle grinder but I doubt my own.

Mike, Newb is right about annealing, but your experience is also correct metalurgy. Normally, heating and then air cooling steel anneals and thus softens the alloy, however, chainsaw teeth are very small and make a tiny heatsink. The edges we are sharpening are very fine. This means that they will "flash-cool" in air when over heated due to the great surface area in relationship to mass. Theoretically it is possible to both soften the tooth body and harden the cutting edge in one swell foop. One thing is certain. If chains come back with heatblueing on the cutters the job was NOT well done.

Ax-man · Mar 26, 2005

Anyone ever have the same experience I have had with cutting burned or charred wood. Takes the edge right off a chain and it seems it can never be sharpened again. I usually run into this when people try unsucessfully try to burn a high stump, big log or insurance work where a house has caught fire and killed a nearby tree. If you clean the area to be cut with a hatchet or axe you can get through the cut but the chain still take a beating and is never really the same afterwards.

Can some one explain what might be going on here??

Larry

hand filing

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