036 Build Projects, Crank, Bearings, Carbs etc etc

[PogoInTheWoods]

I am a little fuzzy on how you determined that they were not running true.
I may be very wrong and would like to know if I am but I think your over complicating it. As I said there is already some play in the system anyway. My 2 cents.

The runout is pretty evident when spinning the crank, though does seem to have diminished somewhat after a few good whacks as
suggested to seat the crank in the bearings better. But it's still there. You may be right and it'll fly just fine, but it is the clutch side toward the end of the crank where the notoriously cheesy little needle cage tends to explode even when it's having a good day according to most folks. I shot a short video of it last night, but haven't figured out how to upload it anywhere yet to link to it. I do intend to upgrade the bearing/drum setup, but don't want to trash whatever ends up being their.

And I only noticed it on the one crank. But if they're both out of their cases with no bearings on em, what the hell...may as well have em both checked while I'm at it. Unfortunately, the one I'm concerned about was just re-installed by someone else with new bearings. Don't want to screw them up too and will hope like hell they stay put in the case halves if I actually do split em again.

I just have a bad feeling about this either way I decide to go...

Poge

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Not sure if this will work or even be of any value to the discussion...

[video=youtube_share;bmY0uOwykk4]http://youtu.be/bmY0uOwykk4[/video]

No clue on how the video attachment stuff is supposed to work...

 

[CWME]

Sorry, that page was not found.

I opened an account with youtube. Didn't take very long. Upload the video there and then copy the address at the top of the page. in the reply message click on film button which is right next to the photo one and paste link there.


It is working now! Never mind this post...

 

[CWME]

I see what you mean with the runout... You said the bearings are good, only leave the crank in question in my mind.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Sorry, that page was not found.

I opened an account with youtube. Didn't take very long. Upload the video there and then copy the address at the top of the page. in the reply message click on film button which is right next to the photo one and paste link there.


It is working now! Never mind this post...

Yeah, I sorta figured it out with a bit of fooling around, and a lot of luck.

So what do ya think about the runout?

Oops...and missed your response.

It's got me in a quandary fer sure.

 

[CWME]

Might try putting the good crank in the cases that the questionable one is in. That would eliminate the bearings as being the cuplrit.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

I see what you mean with the runout... You said the bearings are good, only leave the crank in question in my mind.

After sitting back and looking it over again, and noticing the following, I'm starting to lean toward the flywheel side bearing not even being properly seated in the first place, not to mention a couple other things that indicate a pretty sloppy rebuild attempt by someone along the line prior to my good luck at finding such a steal of a winter project!

Nah, she's coming back apart and I'll take my lumps learning some new things as I go. Don't want to beat a dead horse with this thread, but will try keeping it up to date as I peck away at both of my own contributions to the cause.

Still want to know if JacobJ was serious about using a 440 bearing and drum setup on these things as an even better upgrade than the original 036 upgrade.

Anyway, coupla pics of what doesn't exactly look like proper crank alignment to me. I uploaded all three to basically illustrate the same thing from just slightly different angles.

]

Poge

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

036 Thread Revival

Getting back to where I left off....

The cranks from both of the 036 projects I'm hoping will be relevant contributions to the thread were checked by a local shop for run out and both were within Stihl specs. The story on the wobble in the video is basically a case-split and bearing replacement gone way south by someone who did a real bad job before I got the saw.

When I finally got around to splitting the case on this one, I got the splitting setup bolted up to the bar studs and was snugging up the puller by hand before grabbing a wrench to pop the case -- and it just popped apart. Sort of explained a couple things.

Anyway, bearings were a slop fest and useless even though they were supposed to be new. I'm guessing they were excessively heated for installation onto the crank, or, well..., not new at all, but re-used.

Main concern at this point is how bad the seat is scuffed up and if I can still use this case half with a little cleanup. There were some really fine shreds of mag -- maybe the size of strands of hair? The chunk that's in the pic was the most drastic example of displaced material, but doesn't look like it came from the seat area.

'Course Stihl says cases should be replaced as whole units and case halves should not be mixed and matched -- and this particular saw looks like two different case halves already, so...

Can I clean up the seat area and get away with using this case half?

As usual, TIA for any comments and/or advice.

Poge

 

[fastLeo151]

poge

The bearings were new aftermarket, I installed them with no heat, put onto the crank first. then into the cases. let me know if you want out from under them. I will gladly give you your 150.00 back. sorry that you think im such a hack, If I can help let me know...The last thing i want is you to be un happy with the saw.

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[parrisw]

Just clean it up, if the bearing fits tight in the case, its fine.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

poge

The bearings were new aftermarket, I installed them with no heat, put onto the crank first. then into the cases. let me know if you want out from under them. I will gladly give you your 150.00 back. sorry that you think im such a hack, If I can help let me know...The last thing i want is you to be un happy with the saw.

Thanks,

Andrew

Andrew,

Thanks for the kind and stand-up gesture. But I never said it was the saw I got from you. I only said that someone had worked on it before me and the workmanship was less than stellar, perhaps being a bit harsh in my description, but the work done on it was done very poorly with questionable parts, nonetheless.

I also stated earlier in the thread that I'm willing to take my lumps on these 036 projects as I live and learn and hopefully have some fun getting at least two runners out of the effort.

You're an honest guy and I'd do business with you again. Let's leave it at that if it's ok with you.

Poge

 

[timmcat]

On the subject of your crank runout, how did the shop who checked it check the runout? Did they support it with v-blocks at the bearing locations and check the ends, or did they use lathe centers in the ends of the crank? The results can vary depending on the test. Your crank looked out of phase to me. I have seen a few 028s and 034s where the crank weights actually twisted on the axis of the crankpin. It only takes a degree or two to make it noticable. I have seen a 575 Husky run with a crank like that and it made so much heat in the bearings that it cooked the powdercoat right off the case. I would double check your crank with a dial indicator and support the crank at the ends. Measure the runout where the bearings ride, if there's any its too much.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

On the subject of your crank runout, how did the shop who checked it check the runout? Did they support it with v-blocks at the bearing locations and check the ends, or did they use lathe centers in the ends of the crank? The results can vary depending on the test. Your crank looked out of phase to me. I have seen a few 028s and 034s where the crank weights actually twisted on the axis of the crankpin. It only takes a degree or two to make it noticable. I have seen a 575 Husky run with a crank like that and it made so much heat in the bearings that it cooked the powdercoat right off the case. I would double check your crank with a dial indicator and support the crank at the ends. Measure the runout where the bearings ride, if there's any its too much.

All I know is they used V-blocks and dial gauge/indicator according to the Stihl procedure (whatever that happens to be) and both cranks were within the Stihl specs -- which, btw, these guys think is fairly sloppy compared to the tolerances they're used to with their main bread and butter work which is high performance bikes and sleds and the like. They just also happen to be the Stihl repair shop for one of the long time (old-time) local dealers right around the corner from me, too. They know what they're doing and have bailed me out of trouble on more than a few occasions!