036 Build Projects, Crank, Bearings, Carbs etc etc

[CWME]

Pogo, as they said just give it a good whack on each side with a dead blow. Mine was tight to the point it was hard to spin. Couple good whacks and it was free as a bird.


Update,
New Meteor piston is junk. Going to start a new thread just to make sure... Sample photo below.View attachment 218839

 

[timmcat]

Justsaws in post 96 stole what I was thinking about 2 pages back. But I wonder if you could use a piece of solder cut to the diameter of the piston and hold it in place with some grease on top of the piston, then you'd be holding the piston square in the jug and getting a more true measure. Also bummer on the piston, and nice pics to go with the progress.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Pogo, as they said just give it a good whack on each side with a dead blow. Mine was tight to the point it was hard to spin. Couple good whacks and it was free as a bird.
Update,
New Meteor piston is junk.

Coupla good whacks didn't do much. Spins free and feels fine. Still just a hair off spinning true on the clutch side. Should probably come apart to see what's what.

Mega-bummer about that piston, man. That seriously sucks.

Your jig idea and the Dayton press did the trick getting the crank and bearings out of my other case halves, tho. One side doesn't look too good and will need an opinion or two when I get a chance to take/post a decent pic.

Poge

 

[Stihlofadeal64]

Pogo, as they said just give it a good whack on each side with a dead blow. Mine was tight to the point it was hard to spin. Couple good whacks and it was free as a bird.


Update,
New Meteor piston is junk. Going to start a new thread just to make sure... Sample photo below.View attachment 218839

Send me a pm about the new thread location. I've never had a problem with any Meteor upt to this point, but I'm always learning.
Enjoying this thread. Hopefully you'll post a video of the test and tune. Thanks

 

[parrisw]

If its not running true, that's different then binding. I'm guessing your crank is bent.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

If its not running true, that's different then binding. I'm guessing your crank is bent.

How does a crank get bent without the rest of the saw being destroyed by whatever force bent the crank?:msp_confused:

And how do you absolutely determine if a crank is bent vs. just having bearing/alignment issues with the case? Sorta gets back to my original question...

 

[parrisw]

How does a crank get bent without the rest of the saw being destroyed by whatever force bent the crank?:msp_confused:

And how do you absolutely determine if a crank is bent vs. just having bearing/alignment issues with the case? Sorta gets back to my original question...

Put crank in a set of V blocks, put a dial indicator on it and rotate it to check runout. I can't imagine the case is out of alignment, if it were out of alignment the crank would bind when turning, it would not have runout on the end of the crank.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Put crank in a set of V blocks, put a dial indicator on it and rotate it to check runout. I can't imagine the case is out of alignment, if it were out of alignment the crank would bind when turning, it would not have runout on the end of the crank.

Looks like this 2nd one is coming apart then, too. I sure don't want to be buying another set of bearings if I can somehow save these. They're supposedly new according to the guy who I bought the saw from.

A guy around the corner from me who works on bikes and sleds and saws may have a set of blocks and a dial gauge to check both cranks, though the one below looks to have bigger problems even if it is straight. It's the one from the original http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/188742.htm thread where the needle cage evidently grenaded at least once or twice from the looks of things.

Could I get away with using this (if it's actually straight) with the newer/larger bearing/drum setup that replaced the original cheesy little one? BTW, the crank end "seems" ok up against a straight edge vs. having the concave shape THALL refrerenced in the original thread. I just don't know if these little dings would be enough to wreak havoc on the a new, larger needle cage.

Poge

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

And about this bearing seat...

Normal? Looks weird to me.

'Preciate all the comments and help -- and especially CWME lettin' me piggyback his thread.



Poge

 

[parrisw]

And about this bearing seat...

Normal? Looks weird to me.

'Preciate all the comments and help -- and especially CWME lettin' me piggyback his thread.



Poge

Bearing seat looks fine to me.

The crank end, I'd be worried about it wearing out a new bearing rather quickly, if you put the bearing and drum on is there any play?

 

[Jacob J.]

Could I get away with using this (if it's actually straight) with the newer/larger bearing/drum setup that replaced the original cheesy little one? BTW, the crank end "seems" ok up against a straight edge vs. having the concave shape THALL refrerenced in the original thread. I just don't know if these little dings would be enough to wreak havoc on the a new, larger needle cage.

Poge

Take some 320 grit or similar emery cloth and lightly go over that area, not too much, just enough to smooth it out.
Then ditch the 034 clutch drum and bearing and replace it with a 440 rim and drum kit and bearing. You'll get a lot more
service life that way. Thinning crews here used to run the 034/036/MS-360 and we'd replace those parts on the new
saws before they headed out the door. Doing that saved a lot of headaches.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Take some 320 grit or similar emery cloth and lightly go over that area, not too much, just enough to smooth it out.
Then ditch the 034 clutch drum and bearing and replace it with a 440 rim and drum kit and bearing. You'll get a lot more
service life that way. Thinning crews here used to run the 034/036/MS-360 and we'd replace those parts on the new
saws before they headed out the door. Doing that saved a lot of headaches.

So that would supersede using the 1125-007-1041 kit? Very cool if that's what you're indicating. 'Preciate the tip. Are you talking an 1128-007-1000 kit w/9512-933-2380 needle cage? That's what I'm coming up with.

And I don't have anything to "test" the questionable area as suggested except a really worn version of the older, tiny needle bearing. I ran it past the brass brush on my grinder to polish it a bit, (the crank end), but will do a light 320 once-over and see how it goes. Feels fairly smooth to the touch as-is, but just looked pretty shaky. 'Course larger needle rollers probably won't even notice the unevenness with a bit more smoothing, or so I'll hope if it's worth a shot.

Thanks a bunch, fellas!

Poge

 

[parrisw]

So that would supersede using the 1125-007-1041 kit? Very cool if that's what you're indicating. 'Preciate the tip. Are you talking an 1128-007-1000 kit w/9512-933-2380 needle cage? That's what I'm coming up with.

And I don't have anything to "test" the questionable area as suggested except a really worn version of the older, tiny needle bearing. I ran it past the brass brush on my grinder to polish it a bit, (the crank end), but will do a light 320 once-over and see how it goes. Feels fairly smooth to the touch as-is, but just looked pretty shaky. 'Course larger needle rollers probably won't even notice the unevenness with a bit more smoothing, or so I'll hope if it's worth a shot.

Thanks a bunch, fellas!

Poge

If ya can get some fine emery cloth, like 320 what JJ said, and tear off a real long length, use it like a big polishing band hold each end and pull it around the crank, ya just push pull each end in your hands, keep rotating around the crank. Putting it in a lathe would be better.

 

[CWME]

[video=youtube;xdgFFbcCu9Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdgFFbcCu9Y[/video]
Ist video is the stock 036
[video=youtube;nhwFM1egbLE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhwFM1egbLE[/video]
2nd video is the ported one

Found a chunk of mostly punky something or other under the snow for testing. It has to be the dirtiest piece of wood I could find. Chains dulled up almost instantly:bang: Anyway even with the bad quality video you can see that both saws are running.

I put the junk meteor piston in the ported 036 after cleaning up the casting flaws and those sharp edges where the casting is missing. I missed the fact that the flywheel nut was not tight. Got the saw tuned a little and I heard a snap and it died. I was thinking the worst had just happened:bang: Anyway I put the flywheel on as best I could to make a test cut but the timing is way off. Not making any power with it as is. Going to order a new key tomorrow. Compression was still only at 135 PSI with the new piston and rings. However I only had less than a minute run time on it before I tested. Squish was .021 with this new piston. I was going to deck the cylinder on the lathe but no need to now. The guy who tried to port this thing before I got it really screwed the build with raising the exhaust port.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

You suck!!!

Hell, mine are still both in pieces with the cranks going into the shop tomorrow to check for my suspected run out before I go much further with either one.:bang:

Nah, man. Nice job. Props to ya all the way around -- especially for the patience and diligence you showed along the way.
Sure helped me keep the challenges with my similar project in a better perspective than would normally be the case!!!



Poge

 

[Stihlofadeal64]

keep em coming

I love the video! There is a definite contrast in how the saws idle. Do you tune by ear or with a tach, (or both). Just curious. The stock saw is not all that bad (IMHO). Otherwise, I owned several 036's and they are great saws. The first one I bought was from a guy who could not get his to run, he just wanted to get rid of it. He had a old gas line that needed replacing. Fixed it up with a new line and impulse line and it ran like a champ. Thanks for posting!

 

[CWME]

I just tune by ear. I will get a tach some day when I have the cash to burn. I set the H screw at or a little more than 1 1/4 turns out. That way it should be fat for start up. These saws both have fresh rings so I didn't pin them at WOT without a load to tune. The H sides are still rich. When I tune the H side I will try to set it so it 4-strokes and then make a heavy cut and then check it again right after the cut checking for the 4 stroking again. Based on the color of everything in my mufflers, spark plug, and presense of 4 stroking my saws are on the rich side but not overly so. I might be losing a little in cut times but haven't had a saw burn down yet.

The stock saw pulls really well. I am impressed with it! Only cut that log though It pulls better than the ported one:msp_scared: Should have that fixed in a few days though

The timing is pretty retarded on the ported saw. You can definately hear that it is not right in the video.

I love the video! There is a definite contrast in how the saws idle. Do you tune by ear or with a tach, (or both). Just curious. The stock saw is not all that bad (IMHO). Otherwise, I owned several 036's and they are great saws. The first one I bought was from a guy who could not get his to run, he just wanted to get rid of it. He had a old gas line that needed replacing. Fixed it up with a new line and impulse line and it ran like a champ. Thanks for posting!

 

[CWME]

I would still be working on the ported Pro saw tonight if the new piston wasn't a few thousands taller than stock. I had everything all set to make a video of turning the jug on the lathe. I was quite proud of my 1 1/2 pipe mandrel I made up:msp_biggrin: Saved me from having to order a live center for the lathe!

Yours will come together quickly once you have the parts. Thanks for the kind words.

I apreciate the more experienced guys like Jacob and Parrisw for their words of advice along the way. The thread stayed on track very well and I hope that it is useful for others in the future.

I am looking forward to seeing how your builds come out.

You suck!!!

Hell, mine are still both in pieces with the cranks going into the shop tomorrow to check for my suspected run out before I go much further with either one.:bang:

Nah, man. Nice job. Props to ya all the way around -- especially for the patience and diligence you showed along the way.
Sure helped me keep the challenges with my similar project in a better perspective than would normally be the case!!!



Poge

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

036 clutch drum, bearing upgrade options

Just bumping this and hoping JJ is still watching to comment on my question in post #112 on the 440 rim and drum kit part#'s to even further upgrade the 034/036/360 rim, drum, bearing "upgrade kit".

And got a little sidetracked, so my cranks haven't gone in to see the v-blocks and dial gauge yet. Hopefully this afternoon, but the guy wants 20~30 bucks (depends) to check em. Is that reasonable? And "depends" on what? Is the setup that meticulous?

TIA as usual for comments and suggestions.

Poge

 

[CWME]

I got mine from HLS for $50. Your going to pay 20-30 to find out if they are good or not. Judgement call on your part as you know what your long term goals are with the saws.
I am a little fuzzy on how you determined that they were not running true. I am going to go out on a limb here and say that what little runout you probably have isn't going to amount to anything. There is play in the rim sprocket sitting on the drum. A little clearance from the crank to the bearing and to the drum as well. I would guess that all that would add up to more than what you are seeing.

I may be very wrong and would like to know if I am but I think your over complicating it. As I said there is already some play in the system anyway. My 2 cents.