044 rebuild

[buckwheat]

I have an older Stihl 044 that I use one day a week for firewood cutting. I was told by after the last service that I'm looking at a top end overhaul (cylinder and piston) within the next year, but in the meantime the saw is running strong with minimal compression loss. How much should I expect to pay if I have a Stihl pro do the work v. a local small engine guy, and is it wise to try to pick up a used parts saw and pull the top end off of it? thanks

 

[jokers]

Hi Buckwheat, if the saw runs strong with minimal compression loss, why does it need a rebuild? What compression do you have? Are there other starting or running problems? Is the mechanic who suggested a rebuild possibly talking about a re-ring, that should be pretty cheap, and as long as you don`t have any serious scoring you should be able to re-ring a couple of times. As to whether you should use the Stihl dealer or the small engine mechanic, you are probably the only person qualified to make that decision, we don`t know either of them. It may be that the small engine guy is someone like Fish who is also a Stihl Technician, or he could be Cooter for all we know. The dealership SHOULD have the expertise but you are likely to run into a case where they want to sell you more repair than you really need to minimize their liability, or chances that a simple re-ring might not last as long as a new cylinder and piston thus possibly tarnishing their reputation. Russ

 

[HUSKYMAN]

Here's what I would do--buy myself a compression tester and make a baseline reading right now. Then I would check compression about every month or so. Once I saw a significant drop in compression (more then 5-10lbs) then I would re-ring it. The only time a saw needs a new cylinder is when it is scored due to overheating or lean seizure. Sounds to me like your dealer wants a rebuild job. A re-ring job is pretty simple, though I have never worked on the 044 in particular

 

[rupedoggy]

Baileys has a special sale on new piston and cylinder for 044. The price is $99. If you are worried about your saw you could pick one up and have it ready when you need it. If you buy a parts saw it won't be that cheap and it may have a bad cylinder too. Mike

 

[buckwheat]

Thanks guys. A Stihl dealer who did some carb work on the saw indicated that the cylinder and piston were scored, and that the compression is not what it should be, although he also indicated that the saw is currently running strong. He made it sound like re-ringing it won't do the job. (I bought the saw used several months ago.)
My impressions are that the saw is running fine for the time being. It cuts very strong, idles fairly smooth, but with an occasional stall that may have nothing to do with the top end.
So I'm left weighing my options for the cost of the re-build v. replacing the saw when the performance does start to drop off. I now know that I might be able to get the parts for $100, but I should also find out: a. what is the Stihl shop cost to do the work (shop rate X hours), and b. is this a job that I could turn over to a non-Stihl small engine mechanic who can give me a better price? I know that ya gets whats ya pay for, but sometimes saving a few dollars by going with the guy down the street is money wisely spent. I'm just looking for information and advice so that I don't go throwing good money after bad.

 

[davefr]

Unless this saw is needed to earn a living and is used daily, than I'd just continue to use it, but I'd mix the fuel a tad richer with oil. Use 0.9 gal with the oil vs. 1.0 gal. Keep using it until more major symptoms manifest like significant power loss or poor idle.

These Pro Stihl's can run for years with light scoring. Re-ringing is generally a waist of time according to Madsens tech info.

If you want to proceed with the rebuild you'll probably have 2 choices:

1. Budget - Buy the Bailey's jug for $100 and do it yourself or take it to an independent shop. Maybe even Bailey's service dept. These short blocks are a no-brainer to swap. (unlike lower bearings). A pro could do it in an hour and a shade tree newbie could do it in 2-3. A T27 torx driver is about the only speciallized tool you need to buy. If you want, you could go over to EBAY and Ken would sell you a Stihl factory service manual but you probably don't need it. You're probably looking at $100-$200 depending on who does the work.

2. $tihl service - I doubt an authorized Stihl dealer will let you supply the parts. They'll want to sell you the $tihl parts which will be over double the price. (it's understandable since they need to stand behind the repair). I would bet this rebuild would cost you close to $400.

 

[dozerdan]

Hi buckwheat
I will install one of Bailey's jug's on your saw for 50.00 labor.I will guarantee my work but not there jug.I am out of 44s right now but I can give you a 036,064,066 to use until I get yours done.I am located in McClure.Email me at [email protected]
Later

 

[JimL]

Originally posted by davefr
Unless this saw is needed to earn a living and is used daily, than I'd just continue to use it, but I'd mix the fuel a tad richer with oil. Use 0.9 gal with the oil vs. 1.0 gal. Keep using it until more major symptoms manifest like significant power loss or poor idle.

These Pro Stihl's can run for years with light scoring. Re-ringing is generally a waist of time according to Madsens tech info.

If you want to proceed with the rebuild you'll probably have 2 choices:

1. Budget - Buy the Bailey's jug for $100 and do it yourself or take it to an independent shop. Maybe even Bailey's service dept. These short blocks are a no-brainer to swap. (unlike lower bearings). A pro could do it in an hour and a shade tree newbie could do it in 2-3. A T27 torx driver is about the only speciallized tool you need to buy. If you want, you could go over to EBAY and Ken would sell you a Stihl factory service manual but you probably don't need it. You're probably looking at $100-$200 depending on who does the work.

2. $tihl service - I doubt an authorized Stihl dealer will let you supply the parts. They'll want to sell you the $tihl parts which will be over double the price. (it's understandable since they need to stand behind the repair). I would bet this rebuild would cost you close to $400.

I work at a ace hardware with 2 stihl certified mechs. I just put a new jug on a 036P for the city today. Labor was only $22 and they supplied the parts. Normal shop rate is $46 and hour with $18 bench charge. Took about 20 minutes for me to put it on there. Only thing different really is the compression release from the 036 and the 044.

I personally would suggest doing it yourself. First one I did was on an 028 super and that only took me an hour without any help. Only part you have to watch is the little pins on the piston need to be lined up with the cut in the ring.

 

[dozerdan]

Now there is a good option for you,maybe you can find an Ace store in your area.And while you are there ask them if you can have someone work on it that has watched 2 Stihl certified mechs work.
Yes you can install a jug in about 20 min,if that's all you want to do.But you also want to check it out to make sure there are no air leaks.There has to be a reason why it scored the piston.
The man did say that he had a problem with it stalling,so there is probably a seal leaking.Since someone else already had the carb apart.I would also go over it again.
And while you are at the Ace store,ask them if they will give you a saw to use when yours is down.
Later

 

[D]

Even if it did take you 20 minutes, isn't your expertise worth anything. If I got out of there with less than a 150 dollar bill, as a customer even, I would have to wonder. I am not trying to bad mouth you, but this is how your business could suffer. You have to charge for your knowledge. You didn't even charge the alloted warranty time Stihl gives you which is chinsey at best. Just some helpful hints....

 

[JimL]

20 minutes is easy. That includes cleaning the saw up and checking it over for other problems like rod bearings. This particular 036P had straight gas ran it. Really no reason to check for a air leak when you pour the gas out and it is yellow. They admitted putting straight gas in it. Did it with their 046 also. Must have forgot to pour in the oil.

Sorry if I came off like a know it all but it really isn't that hard and doesn't take that long to do with the right tools. Any unit that leaves the shop that I worked on gets checked by the certified fellas first to make sure I didn't screw anything up.

Dozerdan, watched isn't what I call it, more like taught.

 

[dozerdan]

OK
I think I got it now.You taught the two Stihl mechs.

 

[Cicero]

Buckwheat,

Keep in mind on that jug from Baileys you guys found for the 044 may not work, there are actually two jugs with a serial number break. The difference is the size of the piston pin. Therfore, it is important to get the right one since the rod will not fit. Anyone who sells you a jug better get the serial number. Our shop will charge approx. 100 dollars to do the work. The reason being is that it wont take so much time to exchange just the jug, however, the customer expects that saw to be running tops when it leaves. You might spend a little more time making sure the rest is perfect so the guy dont come back pissed off when you did not check everything else. You gotta cover your %$*
That cylinder from Stihl should run about $188.00.

Saws that are mine or the shops if they are not scored too bad you can clean the cylinder up with some muretic acid (not sure of spelling) and just replace the piston and rings. It is usually real reliable although we wont sell this to a customer because it may bite you in the butt.

 

[tundraotto]

stihls sell good on ebay - sell it and get another one - you will eliminate the possiblity of something else falling apart around the problem area - plus as im sure you have grown an appetite you can use it as an excuse to get a bigger model... horsepower is more addictive than cocaine - i cant seem to get any prices though so i cant say which is more expensive -

 

[buckwheat]

Lots of good info and advice - I expected nothing less. I called my auto mechanic and since I supply the wood that heats his garage, he is more than happy to test the compression for the baseline. Turns out that he used to race motorcross, so he knows a little bit about two strokes, and he proceeded to tell me that he used to own a "four stroke bear of saw" way back when.
Given that the saw is running pretty good right now, I'm going to continue to use it with periodic compression readings. If things start to go bad, I now have an idea of the scope and cost of the work, and can make an educated decision at that point on repair/replacement options. and of course I'll need to factor in the "but honey, I need this new saw" argument.
btw, I switched over from Stihl and Oregon to GB bars and chains about a month ago, and I have nothing but good things to say so far. At nearly half the cost, they seem to hold an edge better with a good fast cut. And on that 044, its like a hot knife through butter. I've got a farmer friend who wants me to take out a hedge row of Osage Orange next month - can't wait to tear into it! 'might save that wood for myself.

 

[dozerdan]

I didn't think that we had Osage Orange here in Pa.I keep hearing you guys talking about this stuff.If we have it here I must know it under another name.Can someone post some pics of one of these,describe what they look like.Do they get a fruit that looks like a orange?Could it be what we call hedge apple?
Later
Dan

 

[buckwheat]

I've heard it called "hedge."

 

[dozerdan]

I didn't think that we had Osage Orange here in Pa.I keep hearing you guys talking about this stuff.If we have it here I must know it under another name.Can someone post some pics of one of these,describe what they look like.Do they get a fruit that looks like a orange?Could it be what we call hedge apple?
Later
Dan

 

[dozerdan]

I dont know how the same post got here twice.Do they get a round green fruit about the size of a small grapefruit?
Later

 

[buckwheat]

yah. Word is they were imported from the south and used to keep the cows home because they also have humongous thorns.