050 051 075 076 Info Thread

[towingace]

I have a partial 051av electronic that I want to build. I have read all 16 pages of this thread (obviously, some of the later posters haven't) and I must admit that I'm a little apprehensive about going ahead with it. I am missing flywheel, ignition, starter/tank assy., clutch cover, lower rear handle/shrould, etc. To begin with, I'll have to see what crankcase I have and go from there. The clutch (spur type) is on it, so I'm assuming the oiler assy. is intact (I'll know later today). Thanks to the contributers of this thread for all the great info, that is a ton of work. Too bad the OP's pics are gone (I need to figure out what ignition will fit). The OP is still an active member but has not posted on this thread for a couple years. My biggest concern is locating the parts I need (a lot of other guys looking for the same stuff). This is what makes "built, not bought" more satisfying in the end. Did someone say "I need my head examined"?

 

[William Balaska]

It sounds like you need almost a whole saw to make anything of what you have. Fortunately u live in the giant saw capital of the world so they are out there. I've done a few 51 and 075 076 saws so after the first it get better.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Pretty big challenge you're setting yourself up for -- with what sounds like just a case with a top end as a starting point. As you've become aware after some reading, the 1111 series is one of the more interesting Stihl endeavors due to so much tweaking and nuance in design variation across the lifetime of the saw's production.

But if it already has a good oil pump setup with the correct drive arrangement...,GO FOR IT!!! Hell, that's half the battle right there!

BTW, if ya need any help, (and aside from having some tech notes and IPL's and stuff that could possibly assist), I also moonlight as a brain surgeon who specializes in nutcase cranial exams for 'the good of the community'..., and beer money, of course!

And as a possible source for odds and ends, check "Duke" Theiroff who I believe is still a sponsor here. Has a pretty good stash of older Stihl stuff and is a great guy to deal with, though he's in Pa. and you may have better luck peckin' at the saw shops and other resources out your way in big saw territory as alluded to by Bill.

Good luck with it. Will certainly put a big smile on your face if ya get it all together and runnin'.

 

[towingace]

Well, a couple things brightened the outlook of this project today. Hey Poge, I was lmao when you mentioned the oiler system because, after reading what you went through, that was the first thing I looked at when I got here. When I saw it was intact, I told myself that was a big hurdle already cleared. The other thing I located was the starter/tank assy., all in good shape. Actually, all of what I have looks to be in great shape. Finding the recoil should help narrow down what ignition I need. Hey Bill, I've done a lot of hard starin' at this saw to build up the courage to go forward and the "nutcase side of me" says GO FOR IT. I gotta get wifey to help me figure out how to put pics on this thing, that will be priority before any forward progress. I very much appreciate your offers of assistance, guys, I'm sure I'll be taking you up on it before long. Hey Poge, I've already been checking out Chris's site, he'll be hearing from me. By the way, the reason this saw is missing so many parts is because subject #1 was preparing to mount the engine to his bicycle, thus removing what he didn't need and tossing the parts in the trash, he gave up on the idea and subject #2 acquired it and removed the ignition, which is also non-existent. About all I can tell you without pics is the serial # is 6048601 and it has the side-mounted oil cap. Finding the recoil was huge, subject #2 removed it to pilfer the flywheel & ignition. I didn't get the bolts with it, therefore, it got separated (just a little ways). I was stoked when I found that today, it's already startin' to resemble a "chubby".

 

[William Balaska]

Bolts are easy as they are m 5 x 20 on the entire saw with a very few exceptions. You can use a late model ignition which is readily available for about fifty bucks you will just need a flywheel and the rest of the parts. Hope you have the rear handle or acquiring parts is going to put u in the poor house.

 

[towingace]

I have the handle assy. but not the lower support/shroud piece. I see a few around in the $25-$35 range but I don't know how many variables there are. The muffler is in very nice shape but I need to figure out what style shroud (if any) is compatible with it and, of course, that ties in with the lower support piece so that has to be compatible with the other compatible pieces. I'm hoping Poge's IPL's will clear that picture up some. Speaking of pics, I'm hopin' to get that figured out today. The mounts for the ignition are 2 threaded posts, 1 on each side of the crank, directly opposite each other. The end of 1 post has a small raised locating shoulder on it. I'm hoping it's not something oddball (pics will be valuable here). Does that serial # help much? Thanks again

 

[towingace]

Here are some pic's, hopefully

 

[towingace]

Hopefully, now it looks more worthy than I was making it sound. No cracks or breaks, mechanically, it seems fine. Is that a common starter configuration?

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Cup style vs. pawl style recoil which will require the correct flywheel to accommodate both the recoil style and the ignition setup.

I tried to get some parts info via an unregistered version of MediaCAT based upon the serial number, but came up empty. The serial number itself seems to be pretty much in the middle of the production series from what I can tell.

Also, you can select full size for your pics instead of thumbnails. And yep...looks like a project.

 

[towingace]

Thanks Poge, the FW and ignition are on my "pursue list". Are cup style & friction style the same?

When we were figuring out the pics thing, I thought full size was exactly what we set up...don't know what happened.

I replied to your PM...hopefully did that right!

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Cup and friction are the same, yes..., (at least to my understanding of the terminology).

And after copying and getting ready to re-post one of your pics, I realized they were indeed full-sized...just really small.

Got the PM just fine, btw. Did the IPL make it back to you ok?​

 

[towingace]

If you click on the pic it'll come up REAL FULL SIZE.

I should have checked e-mail at the shop, all we have at home is this tablet. I'll get it first thing in the am and thank you very much for that.

Is the cup/friction style starter a reliable set-up? This will be my homework tonlght! Thanks again.

 

[JDNicol]

Your 051 was most likely manufactured in 1979. The recoil housing is your determining factor for the flywheel. You cannot change the guts of that recoil from the friction to the pawl system. Hence, you need a flywheel with a friction starter cup (assuming you stick with that recoil/tank).
Originally your saw would have had this coil and trigger setup;

You don't need to mount a trigger under the flywheel (most fry there). You can use either the 1111 400 1305 coil, the 1111 400 1301 coil or the 1111 400 1303 module. The coils (not module) require a trigger but the atom/nova2 would suffice and you can mount them on one of the coil bolt holes or front av mount.

 

[JDNicol]

The 1111 400 1305 coil;

The 1111 400 1301 coil;

The 1111 400 1303 module;

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

So where were you when I was trying to figure out that damned oiler???!!!

Great to see you back in the saddle!

 

[towingace]

Welcome back Jon,

I re-read this thread last nite, my flimsy noodle needed a refresher course. Thanks to Poge & BB, I could relate to some of the info a lot more than the first read.

I believe Duke has the flywheel I need, including the cup parts, at a great price. Only thing is, I think I'm going to upgrade the whole kit & kaboodle to the pawl style. I hate to discard my starter assy., as it's in good shape, but it seems to be the most reasonable plan of attack.

Either way, the 1303 module (or equivalent) looks like my direction of travel there. Do they have a good longevity record?

The pics & input are much appreciated, guys. I know Poge is sayin' I really should have takin' him up on that exam. Speaking of Poge, I need to get down to the shop and print out that IPL. Thanks again.

P.S. Getting side-tracked today, preparing for a butt-kickin' wind/rain storm that's enroute.

 

[JDNicol]

So where were you when I was trying to figure out that damned oiler???!!!

Great to see you back in the saddle!

Lol! You did a good job though. Yet another example the 1111 series Stihl saws had the most alterations during production.
I believe the pin drive systems were only used on the 050 and very early 051 saws. There are a lot of hybrid parts out there that cover more than one of the drive systems eg. oil pump worms with 3 holes, spur sprockets with 3 holes and washers with clearance for lugs and pressed pins.

 

[JDNicol]

Either way, the 1303 module (or equivalent) looks like my direction of travel there. Do they have a good longevity record?

Yes, it was mostly used on the TS760/TS510 cut off saws though. 051/076 saws were no longer/near the end of being marketed to USA/Europe etc when it was introduced.

It was virtually always the trigger that failed with the trigger/coil combinations. Usually as a result of it being under the flywheel and getting baked! The -1303 module has an "inbuilt trigger" like any module on a modern saw.

 

[JDNicol]

A crude little comparison of the -1202 (Bosch 1 216 610 045 ) and -1204 (Bosch 1 216 610 098) flywheels. I mounted a crank in the lathe and used the gears to prevent rotation. The flywheels were only a snug fit not torqued down.The pointer is made of aluminium.

The -1204 is roughly 20 thousanths smaller in diameter and has (again roughly) a 0.7 to 0.9 degree advance (relative to the -1202). Basically they are interchangable relative to the coils/module.

There is probably more than one points flywheel as the timing was retarded on the 050/051 from 24-26 degrees to 22-23 degrees in the very early 1970s. Unfortunately, I don't have either here to test.

 

[towingace]

Thanks for that info, the IPL indicates that the 1303 module & 1204 flywheel are compatabile.