10 Degree Filed Chain

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

ty!!

But wouldnt I get better cutting for an infrequently used saw, to just get a new 30d chain?

Considering regular chains for 20" bars can be bought for next to nothing, yes. Strange anyone would put a 10 degree ripping chain on a 310 but maybe they were doing some light milling. You could leave it as is if you were ever going to do some light duty small log milling with it yourself. I only ever bother converting any of my 10 degree ripping chains to 30 degree cross cutting chains when they're severely damaged and I just want a go to hell cross cut chain.

 

[jeffpack1957]

Considering regular chains for 20" bars can be bought for next to nothing, yes. Strange anyone would put a 10 degree ripping chain on a 310 but maybe they were doing some light milling. You could leave it as is if you were ever going to do some light duty small log milling with it yourself. I only ever bother converting any of my 10 degree ripping chains to 30 degree cross cutting chains when they're severely damaged and I just want a go to hell cross cut chain.

I dunno either why? Heck, until now I wouldn't have known the difference

 

[jeffpack1957]

I dunno either why? Heck, until now I wouldn't have known the difference

I can get a RS chain, or an RS3 and I havent quite been able to yet figure out the difference from searching here yet...

 

[jeffpack1957]

I "think" I found the answer? The RS3 is abit slower than an RS, as the 3 has something about vibration and kickback, thus slows it abit?

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

I dunno either why? Heck, until now I wouldn't have known the difference

Hard to buy one by accident, they're not common so seems like it was intentional for milling use. I took some 10 degree ripping chains to a local Stihl dealer for sharpening once and he sharpened them to 30 degrees without thinking and turned out he'd never seen a ripping chain in 20 years of business. RS3 is low kickback chain, safety feature in the design for amateurs, not many people here are fans of safety chain.

 

[jeffpack1957]

Thank you for the help everyone appreciate it

 

[HumBurner]

ty!!

But wouldnt I get better cutting for an infrequently used saw, to just get a new 30d chain?

Yes and no. You'll get a "better" chain for a tank or two, but then what?


It's far cheaper and more efficient to learn how to maintain well your own chain, including sharpening, maintaining depth gauges, fixing tangs in the event they are damaged from a toss, and keeping the bar in good order.

They're charging $10 and up to sharpen chains these days, and some don't do depth gauges as part of that. That adds up, even if you only run 10 tanks a year.


Edit: it may not apply to you, but factory grinds and angles aren't actually necessarily the best for cutting conditions. You can make a chain "better" than a factory grind.

 

[Mad Professor]

I "think" I found the answer? The RS3 is abit slower than an RS, as the 3 has something about vibration and kickback, thus slows it abit?

Hard to buy one by accident, they're not common so seems like it was intentional for milling use. I took some 10 degree ripping chains to a local Stihl dealer for sharpening once and he sharpened them to 30 degrees without thinking and turned out he'd never seen a ripping chain in 20 years of business. RS3 is low kickback chain, safety feature in the design for amateurs, not many people here are fans of safety chain.

Yes I avoid any Stihl chains having a 3 suffix.

I run my chains right down until a cutter or two snaps off and even then they are still cutting good if you know how to file them and keep the rakers proper height.

Goes for crosscut chains too. I sharpen the crosscut chains one last time and hang them on the wall for when I need to cut nasty wood that might have fence metal in it or stumps.

Can't really do that with the "3" chains.

 

[jeffpack1957]

Yes and no. You'll get a "better" chain for a tank or two, but then what?


It's far cheaper and more efficient to learn how to maintain well your own chain, including sharpening, maintaining depth gauges, fixing tangs in the event they are damaged from a toss, and keeping the bar in good order.

They're charging $10 and up to sharpen chains these days, and some don't do depth gauges as part of that. That adds up, even if you only run 10 tanks a year.


Edit: it may not apply to you, but factory grinds and angles aren't actually necessarily the best for cutting conditions. You can make a chain "better" than a factory grind.

Gotta keep up there

I noted above I've already sharpened 2 chains while resurrecting my dad's 2 saws

I finally got a chance just now to use that Jonsered 2041.

Happiness is sharp chain and big chips

 

[jeffpack1957]

Thank you all for sharing your knowledge, I've learned so much here

 

[muddy42]

I have used to change angles to 10 degrees for milling but have gone back to 30 degrees for a few reasons:
- I don't really notice any difference in wood finish. Other factors seem to make more of a difference to the wood finish like low rakers, one side sharper than the other or pushing or 'see-sawing' the saw around.
- I use a big plane or router on any wood for indoor use.
- I mostly cut knotty hardwood with branches, so some of my milling is actually crosscutting (if that makes sense).
- I use my big milling bars for blocking up blocking up big logs which is crosscutting.
- I hand file short and long chains, so same muscle memory and technique, I barely have to think about it.

 

[jeffpack1957]

So, I decided to finally look at my Dads big MS441C. What a beast. Thankfully it wasnt beat to hell by the farm hands. Started right up..


But...

This danged thing has a 10d chain also, but at least is a skip tooth. 28in bar. Nice saw though. So now to get a new chain for it too

 

[J D]

I don't understand why you would replace the chain rather than sharpen it to the angles you want... unless it is at the end of its life anyway.
You don't loose any significant amount of chain life going from 10° to 30° & if the chain is worthless to you otherwise what do you have to loose

 

[jeffpack1957]

I don't understand why you would replace the chain rather than sharpen it to the angles you want... unless it is at the end of its life anyway.
You don't loose any significant amount of chain life going from 10° to 30° & if the chain is worthless to you otherwise what do you have to loose

Previous posters have said not to do that, as the amount to grind off will overheat the chain, but to do it in steps like 20- then 30, and I dont have the inclination to wait, till the 10 needs sharpening, and go to 20, wait again, then 30, otherwise whats the point of a big saw unless its cutting at its best?

 

[muddy42]

Previous posters have said not to do that, as the amount to grind off will overheat the chain, but to do it in steps like 20- then 30, and I dont have the inclination to wait, till the 10 needs sharpening, and go to 20, wait again, then 30, otherwise whats the point of a big saw unless its cutting at its best?

If you hand file its impossible to overheat a chain. If you are patient with an electric chain grinder you won't overheat the chain.

 

[J D]

Previous posters have said not to do that, as the amount to grind off will overheat the chain, but to do it in steps like 20- then 30, and I dont have the inclination to wait, till the 10 needs sharpening, and go to 20, wait again, then 30, otherwise whats the point of a big saw unless its cutting at its best?

I suggested doing it in stages more for convenience (assuming you were hand filing). It isn't really important, but it is a more economical way to transition from 30° to a significantly smaller top plate filing angle.
The top plate filing angle affects how sideways each cutter pulls & helps create a wide enough kerf that the bar doesn't get bound up by the ends of the cut fibres. A saw will cut more efficiently with a lower top plate filing angle so long as it doesn’t bind... this is one of the ways experienced operators adjust their filing to suit different woods. Cutting with the grain (milling) doesn't result in the same fibre pertruding so the angle can reduced down to almost 0°. It's not recommended to routinely cut with less than about 20° top plate filing angle as (aside from the kerf thing) cutting isn't as smooth & kick back can be worse.
Anyone that's suitably "talented" can cook a chain with a grinder, whether they're taking more off or less. Given that you only need to take a bit more off the corner of the top plate to go from 10° to 30° you would have to be pretty heavy handed to over do it.

 

[jeffpack1957]

I suggested doing it in stages more for convenience (assuming you were hand filing). It isn't really important, but it is a more economical way to transition from 30° to a significantly smaller top plate filing angle.
The top plate filing angle affects how sideways each cutter pulls & helps create a wide enough kerf that the bar doesn't get bound up by the ends of the cut fibres. A saw will cut more efficiently with a lower top plate filing angle so long as it doesn’t bind... this is one of the ways experienced operators adjust their filing to suit different woods. Cutting with the grain (milling) doesn't result in the same fibre pertruding so the angle can reduced down to almost 0°. It's not recommended to routinely cut with less than about 20° top plate filing angle as (aside from the kerf thing) cutting isn't as smooth & kick back can be worse.
Anyone that's suitably "talented" can cook a chain with a grinder, whether they're taking more off or less. Given that you only need to take a bit more off the corner of the top plate to go from 10° to 30° you would have to be pretty heavy handed to over do it.

Maybe I'll try that on the other 10d chain off of my MS310 first then. Then I'll have 2 spare chains for each for the bigger ones

 

[jeffpack1957]

I wound up regrinding both chains to 30. Only thing I noticed, is the gullet (if thats the correct word) of the filed area is only partially ground, and maybe 1/2 of the 10d cut still remains on the inside.