16 yo kid inside a mill

[user 188535]

What's wrong with a 16 year old working? But yeah very sad

Some labor laws are b.s. but not all kids are like me in terms of caution operating dangerous machinery. This is just horrible that this happened, but some labor laws should be rolled back and the minors taking the jobs should be supervised and trained to extreme levels.

 

[scut207]

Some labor laws are b.s. but not all kids are like me in terms of caution operating dangerous machinery. This is just horrible that this happened, but some labor laws should be rolled back and the minors taking the jobs should be supervised and trained to extreme levels.

The problem is kids are not old enough mentality wise to do this kind of work. Exceptions may exist regarding maturity, but it isn’t the norm, however rolling back labor protection laws is myopic.

Kids tend to be way overconfident, and aren’t risk adverse. More accidents will happen.

Most factories where a kid “could” physically do the job in a hazardous environment just don’t want to pay a living wage and benefits to an adult. It ripens the system for abuse. Once one plant lowers its labor rate significantly by playing games such as all “part time” mostly youth labor, others will too to compete.

It’s a race to the bottom. Profit margins slim up. Everyone makes less, kids don’t escape the life of living check to check. Domino effect.

 

[Grateful11]

I was making simple items like Gutter spools, S-Locks and Drive Cleats in my Dad's sheetmetal shop at age 8, he couldn't keep me out so he put me to work. Worked every Summer at age 12 and evenings and Saturday's when he needed me, it made me a better person. Dad wouldn't let me run things like the Chicago Lockformer until I was about 12. Now I'm retired as a Journeyman Machinist.

 

[Bill G]

I guess I should have sued myself years ago. Probably be rich now. My dad should have sued himself to. I should have sued my FIL when my sons were helping with the mill. I guess I should have been sued when a kid stuck his hand in the table saw.

Sir you and others are making huge assumptions that currently are not based on any factual information. Now in the future something may come out but right now it is all speculation.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

I think the labor laws pertaining to this situation are very unreasonable unfair and ridiculous. More kids need to be forced into labor situations in my opinion. However I am deeply saddened by this tragic loss of life. Many countries outside of the US have fewer or not any labor laws to speak of. A big problem of today is that young people have no idea what labor is or how to get started. So maybe work programs affiliated with school needs to be implemented.

I started living away from my parents at fourteen. My father went to Germany and my mother moved out of State. I lived in a house that my mother owned and continued school but eventually went to a boarding school for two years. My first meaningful job of tree removal was started then. No body showed me how to operate a chain saw or sharpen but I really needed the money. From that point on I have never lacked to find work. this country would be a very different place if children learned about reality. Thanks

 

[scut207]

I guess I should have sued myself years ago. Probably be rich now. My dad should have sued himself to. I should have sued my FIL when my sons were helping with the mill. I guess I should have been sued when a kid stuck his hand in the table saw.

Sir you and others are making huge assumptions that currently are not based on any factual information. Now in the future something may come out but right now it is all speculation.

I guess we have vastly differing views on how to prove a point.

A lot of the folk who frequent this corner of the internet have a much different view than I do on child labor. I understand that I am likely urinating into a gale force wind here.

When I was young I was allowed to split wood, I was allowed to clear branches with an axe, I was taught to do basic maintenance on the tractor and the saws, and how to hook up logs for dragging. But I wasnt allowed to use a chainsaw until i was about 17 maybe 18.

Whoopsies in this business have long term terrible consequences.

There is nothing a kid can learn in a mill at 16 that he couldn't learn at 18 if thats his calling. There's other much less dangerous work that a kid can be gainfully employed doing.

I, and I mean me, personally do not believe that the reward outweighs the risk.

There's lots of professional adults who have a lot of experience who have permanent disfigurement due to timber work because something "unforeseeable".
I'm not saying put kids in a bubble till 22. If you want to have your kids run a chainsaw, or work in your mill, I think you're bonkers. But you do you. You're the one that will have to live with it if something goes wrong.

I never met my uncle who died at 14 in a farming accident, lost his footing and fell into a forage blower. I lost another cousin in a different farming accident he was 29 with 2 small kids, and one more born 10 days after his death. He probably had 15 years experience doing what he was doing at the time and it was again just lost his footing, BAM DEAD. Young men just making ends meet for their families. So yeah this crap makes me sick.

Regardless, making it easier via legislation for companies to pad their bottom line by employing kids instead of adults is a loss for everyone but the owner.

Child labor, in industrial setting, is a black mark in our history. This story is proof that it should be curtailed.

 

[rms61moparman]

I guess we have vastly differing views on how to prove a point.

A lot of the folk who frequent this corner of the internet have a much different view than I do on child labor. I understand that I am likely urinating into a gale force wind here.

When I was young I was allowed to split wood, I was allowed to clear branches with an axe, I was taught to do basic maintenance on the tractor and the saws, and how to hook up logs for dragging. But I wasnt allowed to use a chainsaw until i was about 17 maybe 18.

Whoopsies in this business have long term terrible consequences.

There is nothing a kid can learn in a mill at 16 that he couldn't learn at 18 if thats his calling. There's other much less dangerous work that a kid can be gainfully employed doing.

I, and I mean me, personally do not believe that the reward outweighs the risk.

There's lots of professional adults who have a lot of experience who have permanent disfigurement due to timber work because something "unforeseeable".
I'm not saying put kids in a bubble till 22. If you want to have your kids run a chainsaw, or work in your mill, I think you're bonkers. But you do you. You're the one that will have to live with it if something goes wrong.

I never met my uncle who died at 14 in a farming accident, lost his footing and fell into a forage blower. I lost another cousin in a different farming accident he was 29 with 2 small kids, and one more born 10 days after his death. He probably had 15 years experience doing what he was doing at the time and it was again just lost his footing, BAM DEAD. Young men just making ends meet for their families. So yeah this crap makes me sick.

Regardless, making it easier via legislation for companies to pad their bottom line by employing kids instead of adults is a loss for everyone but the owner.

Child labor, in industrial setting, is a black mark in our history. This story is proof that it should be curtailed.

Yet every state I know of will turn a 16 year old loose with a 3000 pound automobile capable of traveling speeds in excess of 100 mph! In my humble opinion far more dangerous than working in a sawmill.


Mike

 

[scut207]

Yet every state I know of will turn a 16 year old loose with a 3000 pound automobile capable of traveling speeds in excess of 100 mph! In my humble opinion far more dangerous than working in a sawmill.


Mike

On an arborist site, you’re making the argument that driving a car is more dangerous than the timber industry?

Really?

You’re just going to call one of the most dangerous professions as risky as picking up milk?

If false equivalency was an Olympic sport, that would be gold level.

 

[Hermio]

nothing wrong with a 16 yo having a side job.

I don't think 16 yo belong in hazardous factories with lots of "red mist" whirling blades of death, or hydraulic pinch point machines with items that weigh 1000s of pounds moving around at smash you dead speed.

Sawmill work might be the most dangerous work in the world, I'm having trouble thinking of something more dangerous, other than homemade submarine pilot.

Same reason we don't have 16yo kids in the military.

Thg most dangerous job at the moment is fishing within the arctic circle. But all logging-related jobs are right up there.

 

[Bearcreek]

What's amazing to me is that our society has fallen to the point where many are ok with allowing kids to destroy their life with garbage food and social media but they have a problem with a 16 year old working at a sawmill.

 

[scut207]

What's amazing to me is that our society has fallen to the point where many are ok with allowing kids to destroy their life with garbage food and social media but they have a problem with a 16 year old working at a sawmill.

I get what you’re saying.

However, “Destroying your life” with a video game or poor habits and injury at a sawmill have exponentially different outcomes on your future quality of life.

One can be fixed with willpower; the other major surgery or a casket.

 

[Bearcreek]

I get what you’re saying.

However, “Destroying your life” with a video game or poor habits and injury at a sawmill have exponentially different outcomes on your future quality of life.

One can be fixed with willpower; the other major surgery or a casket.

To a degree, yes. Poor diet and lack of exercise kills and permanently damages a whole lot more kids than workplace accidents though.

 

[wildwes]

I get what you’re saying.

However, “Destroying your life” with a video game or poor habits and injury at a sawmill have exponentially different outcomes on your future quality of life.

One can be fixed with willpower; the other major surgery or a casket.

I agree with a good bit of what you have said up to a point, but try teaching high school vocational classes for a few years and your outlook would likely change some.

There is a lot more to deciding if a kid is ready to work a given job than just their age. I have students who are more mature and more reliable than most adults I know, and I have some that I would hesitate to hand a sharpened pencil.

As for the bad habits- many of them carry lifelong consequences that drastically reduce quality of life, and not all of them can be fixed through sheer willpower.

 

[woojr]

I hate to be so negative but, in the bigger picture, perhaps if more young people worked in factories and not on the mean streets where automatic weapons are easily obtained they'd have a better shot a longer, healthier and happier life. If I turn on the local news (Philly), I occasionally see an occupational death, but pretty much every night people are are shot and killed. I knew nothing when I started working except nobody can keep me safe but me. Maybe I was lucky to work with old guys who taught me things like don't stand under the load kid. Life's full of risks. I sit here typing this with a legitimately worn out old body. I have to buy my firewood these days and just stacking it is a big job. I was about to start this week but it's too hot so it'll wait. My number one decision making criterion is, "can it wait?" Yeah, there's bunch of dangerous stuff out there, why not get paid honestly for doing it? Fifteen, sixteen, seventeen? There's some big kids out there. Just train em right.

 

[GenXer]

A girl I went to high school with lost her leg in a paper mill, she was 18 when she lost it. She fell into a machine, not sure how she did it.
She goes around as a motivation speaker now.

 

[Bill G]

.....................................Regardless, making it easier via legislation for companies to pad their bottom line by employing kids instead of adults is a loss for everyone but the owner.

Child labor, in industrial setting, is a black mark in our history. This story is proof that it should be curtailed.

There is the exact problem, you are making assumptions and have no evidence to back up. You right away assume this was a large company and an industrial setting. Now tell us was it? Were you there? Do you know the owners? You have not provided a shred of evidence to prove it. Stop making assumptions until you get the facts.

 

[Bill G]

Yet every state I know of will turn a 16 year old loose with a 3000 pound automobile capable of traveling speeds in excess of 100 mph! In my humble opinion far more dangerous than working in a sawmill.


Mike

Hell in Iowa you can drive to school at 14. Once you are 14 and a half you can drive to work on a farm. I taught High School Agriculture in Iowa many years ago and was able to send kids to work the FFA farm that were Freshman.

It is hard to believe but as late as the early 1980's High School Seniors in Iowa could drive the school bus and transport students.

https://iowadot.gov/mvd/resources/MM690_MSLCard.pdf

 

[Bill G]

On an arborist site, you’re making the argument that driving a car is more dangerous than the timber industry?

Really?

You’re just going to call one of the most dangerous professions as risky as picking up milk?

If false equivalency was an Olympic sport, that would be gold level.

You missed the point Mike correctly made. You may want to re-read it.

 

[Bill G]

I agree with a good bit of what you have said up to a point, but try teaching high school vocational classes for a few years and your outlook would likely change some.

There is a lot more to deciding if a kid is ready to work a given job than just their age. I have students who are more mature and more reliable than most adults I know, and I have some that I would hesitate to hand a sharpened pencil.

As for the bad habits- many of them carry lifelong consequences that drastically reduce quality of life, and not all of them can be fixed through sheer willpower.

Wes,
Do you have a Cooperative Work Experience program in your school? I had 35 out of about 90 Seniors in mine years ago and still had to teach Ag and run FFA. I then switched to a school that had close to 50 Seniors out of 90 and it was a full time job.

 

[EchoRomeoCharlie]

I'll be honest, I don't have a better way to delineate when a person should be allowed to do something but age can be a bad one.

I know 15 year old's that I would go to war with. I know 35 year old's that I wouldn't trust with a sharpened pencil.