2 cycle oil warning

[bwalker]

I"m sticking with a saw name brand oil, prolly echo, or Husqy.

You certainly wont damge your saw buy doing so, but you also pay more money for a product that is of equal or lesser quality. In short better or equal products can be had for less money.

Why fool around and take the risk of using something cheap or different

Because in some cases the cheap oils are identical to the OEM oils. Take for instance Echo Powerblend. PB and Citgo aircooled share the same basic formula with the only differance being Citgo Aircooled doesnt have a fuel stabiliser in it. It also cost around $2 per quart. Another example would be Mobil MX2T. I can get it for between $3-4 per pint. Cheaper than Stihl or Husky oils, yet its is one, if not the highest quality aircooled, two cycle oil on the market.

 

[davidwyby]

OK, thanks!

 

[klickitatsacket]

Ben I did do my research (you were the one that got that ball started) and on top of that my own feild testing. As for price you can get Husqvarna mix for $2.25 per quart and Stihl mix is $4.50 per quart here. Now it's a little early but what the heck it's my turn to buy a round.

 

[bwalker]

I wouldnt call browsing threads on a BB research. Head to your local engineering library or join the SAE so you can browse their papers. Then the simple concepts I have outlined will not be so foreign to you.
BTW On another one of your posts you mentioned hydrolocking a piston. What all does that entail?
FWIW I have never seen still or Husky mix that cheap. The 2.6oz bottle go for $.99 here. A six pack costs over $6 dollers for less than a pint of oil. Mx2t is around $3.50 a pint and Citgo Aircooled is aroun $2.50 per quart.

 

[scottr]

WoodsmanPRO 2 Cycle Mix

I've been using this oil for almost a year now and I believe it's excellent oil . The price is right also . $5.95 per six pack of 6.4 ounce bottles .

 

[CNYCountry]

I hope I'm not stirring things up further but I will add what I hope is some food for thought.

I have talked to people, including a friend who runs an auto shop, who use waste oil burners for heat in their shops. They have pretty good luck with drained dino motor oil but when they get a load of synthetic they find it's harder to get burning, the burners have problems. These are burners that atomize the oil first, just like standard burners that use No. 2 heating oil. Something like Mobil 1 is mostly PAO with some ester oil. The Class III oils (dino refined down into smaller, more uniform molecules to have the same properties as true PAO based synthetic motor oils) are also harder to burn (Castrol Syntec, etc). This is why the synthetics work so well in motors, supposedly, because they have a higher temperature at which they carbon up and leave deposits, and with that a higher flashpoint, etc. I don't know if any of this can be applied to 2 cycle oil, but I know 4 cycle synthetic motor oil does not burn easily.

 

[klickitatsacket]

Ben, My research STARTED out chasing down every thread and link you posted at one time. I then started going to differant oil company web sights and even emailing questions. Most of what I got back was sales pitches (no help) My wife up until recently worked for a shell service station. No big deal but I was able, through her boss obtain a lot of literature. Some of the best help though came from Marty owner of Hull distributing (Chevron). Marty is an old poker buddy and our sons play football together and we have spent quite a bit of time talking on the side lines. MSDS sheets are quite helpful as well. Talking with bike racers has helped some. Talking with profesional loggers was a bigger help ( they do not tear down there saw at the end of every day) The best research though is the 500 hour tear downs. Any customer that sends me a saw back after 500 hours gets there saw tore down and inspected and measured for wear, free of charge. If the saw needs rings then it is free as a thank you. I started contacting customers about 6 months ago and have had less than 10 saws back for inspection. I have 2 profesional fallers right now running mx2t in their saws; I purchased the oil and with the guarantee that if they fail I would rebuild them for free. One is in a Modified Husqvarna 385 and the other is in a Stihl MS460.
Ben give me a call and I talk at you about the other.

 

[bwalker]

I don't know if any of this can be applied to 2 cycle oil,

It cant.
Two cycle oils be they synthetic or dino based are designed to burn. One of the main reasons quality synthetics are superior is that when the combust inside the engine they do not leave carbon, but instead combust fully and cleanly. This is also why they smoke less. Some old school synthetic oils didnt do this because they used high molecular weight synthetic base oils to increase film strength. Unless the engine was really loaded they didnt burn off and some problems where encountered.
I do know for a fact that the base oils used in Mobil MX2T are unique and proprietary Carboxyl esters combined with a additive package that also has some very unique and proprietary ingrediants. You will not find a cleaner burning oil and I have tested plenty of them.
FWIW Klotz, Amsoil, Maxima all use heavier base stcosk than Mobil because they do not have access to the proprietary stuff Mobil produces. As a result the will burn a bit dirty if the carb tuning is to rich or the load low. They wont cause the catastrophic type events that Dean has mentioned though.
For those that didnt knowMobil is the OEM supplier of base oils to Amsoil and probaly some of the others as well due to the fact that the control most of the syn base oil market. They will not sell their proprietary base oils or additives. So when buying Amsoil your really not getting cutting edge stuff. Same for their additive packages.

 

[bwalker]

Dean the thign syou mentioned are all based on heresay and conjecture. To really fins out whats going on inside a engine your going to have to dig a little deaper. If you would like I can put you in contact with a gentelamn at Chevron-Phillips that can give you alot of insight. Heis not in marketing or on one of those bogus tech help lines either.

 

[timberwolf]

I wonder if some of the people who have not had problems with the 927, klotz or what ever have;

1. Well tuned saws, not running too rich
2. Well maintained saws things get cleaned up before they become a problem
3. opened up mufflers
4. clean, proper heat range plugs
5. fresh, high quality gas
6. polished pistons and ports
7. saw that are being run a WOT 90% of the time

Seams to me that if all things are right the 927 does not cause problems, but maybe if some of the above are not observed the build up becomes a problem.

So for the average Joe who never looks in the saw, has a saw shop check the jet setting one a year, changes the spark plug every 5 years or when it quits, does not know there is a muffler screen and it needs to be cleaned, 927 or klotz might well be a problem.

 

[bwalker]

Most oils when used in the right application wont cause immediate or catastrophic problems. Some are better than others, however.
927 was in vogue in the mid 80's at the time it was a dcent oil. Since then oils have advanced by a large margin. 927 by virtue of its base stock will never be a clean burning oil. No oils with castor in their formulation can pass the latest european and Japanese certifications because theire deposit levels and smoke output are too high.
FWIW no straight dino oil can pass the latest jap and uro standards either. they at leats have to be syn blends to pass.

 

[bvaught]

I know a guy with a 20 year old homelite xl that mixes his oil super rich, rarely runs it at WOT, rarely cleans the air filter, used to run 30w car motor oil but has switched to 2 cycle boat motor oil, never adjusts the carb.....abuse, abuse, abuse. But the saw still runs strong cutting a few cords of wood each year. My point is that while you shouldnt abuse you saw like this guy the type of oil you are using is of little consequence in the big picture.

 

[bwalker]

I know a logger that did the same thing and worse with a Husky 288.