2 in 1 lanyard use

[Tim'sTree]

Would it be acceptable practise to attach the adjustable prusik snap to my center D and loop one end snap around the tie-in piont and back onto the lanyard. Then when moving leap-frog the ends. Assuming the prusik won't slide off the end of the lanyard (care would be taken to keep the knot from getting sloppy and the snaps are large aluminum), are there any glaring problems? Thanks.

 

[Marquis]

I don't know about that...I always hook into my D rings. Just feel safer that way. That's just me.

 

[pdqdl]

What advantage (safe or not) is there to that method?

Going down? Nope. Gotta climb back up to free the end.
Going up? Nope. Not much safety, and you couldn't go very far.

Moving around a lot? Use a standard DRT (doubled-rope technique). Much safer, greater range of motion, and you can detach from it remotely if there is a need.

It's faster to tie that way, so skip setting up a DRT? Why bother tying in at all; that's even faster!

Learn to tie your knots better, then you won't mind spending a pinch more time doing it the right way. You might be trying to save money with a single snap on a single rope for DRT setup?

Use a snap on the end of your rope (properly secured!) to clip to one d-ring and a separate short rope (properly secured!) to clip to the other. Re-tie the short rope as your friction knot to set up a DRT. Now you can snap and unsnap quickly without re-tying. If you like to stay centered, snap both ends to the middle.

Don't forget to use your lanyard as backup when unsnapping. It can turn out badly: http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=80410

 

[moray]

...It's faster to tie that way, so skip setting up a DRT? Why bother tying in at all; that's even faster!

I'm surprised at you, pdqdl, did you have a bad day?

I think maybe Tim'sTree is talking about climbing up through the limbs trying to reach a good TIP, using that horrible 2-in-1 lanyard to always stay safely tied in. It is slow and tedious, and the 2-in-1's tend to be way too short to work well. Clipping back to the lanyard can sometimes save a little time, and I use that once in awhile even though I got rid of my 2-in-1 a long time ago and use two separate lanyards now.

I think there is no safety issue clipping back to the lanyard, but there is a big convenience issue trying to make use of a 2-in-1. IMHO.

 

[pdqdl]

I suspected that too, the way he described it: "when moving leap-frog the ends". But if you are snapped to the limb, you ain't going anywhere far until you go back and UN-snap from the limb. Hence my argument and my suspicions about the author's motivations to use that technique.

A two-in-one lanyard clips back to the belt each time, used properly.

Not really a bad day. I was trying to point out the absurdity of using a poor technique by ridicule. Taking the quest for speed to an illogical extreme, I argued for better safety and technique.

Why? Did I really come off as harsh? Sorry. Really!

Maybe I should cut down on the boldface. It's so easy: Highlight, then ctrl-shift-B Bang! (this works for Underline and Italic, too)

 

[moray]

Just messin witcha, man. Your points are all well taken.

 

[Tim'sTree]

I think maybe Tim'sTree is talking about climbing up through the limbs trying to reach a good TIP

Moray is right on as to what I was getting at. It's for one of those trees growing in the open with plenty of limbs to climb right up from the ground (easier to climb your line up than to throw one up).

This is a case of me sitting around here in minus 15 degree weather thinking about things without actually doing them. Actually trying out this method would probably have been my answer. My thanks pdqdl for taking as much time as you did even for the sake of a stupid question.

 

[pdqdl]

Ok, but my point still stands. If you snap the lanyard to a branch, you are stuck with it. There is no going anywhere until you return to un-snap it.

It's not possible to ascend from branch to branch by snapping to the branch.

If you are secured around the branch back to your belt, that is the intended use of that lanyard. Clip around a second branch (or trunk) while remaining attached to the one below. Unclip lower section, ascend to next tie in. Using that method, you are never unsecured during your ascent.

With respect to your original question about glaring errors: Yes. When you are tied only at one point to your belt, and only one point to the tree, you are exposed to problems that you cannot correct. Let's say you slip, fall to the end of your rope, and break a couple of ribs and dislocate a shoulder. If you were climbing with a DRT at that moment, you could easily lower yourself out of the tree. If you were only on a standard lanyard (assuming you were bringing your climbing line with you as you went), you could re-tie from where you were stopped, unclip one end of your lanyard, and go down the tree. If you were only hanging from one end of the tightly stretched lanyard, you might be completely unable to unclip from the single line you were hanging from. I suppose you could cut yourself free, but that would expose you to a whole lot of problems.

 

[joesawer]

I have snapped a lanyard back to itself in order to help me hold a difficult position before, but it has been a rare thing.
I really don't like the 2 in 1 lanyard. one side is always too long and the other too short.
the fastest for me is two lanyards that will adjust easily.

 

[moray]

...It's not possible to ascend from branch to branch by snapping to the branch.

pdqdl, my friend, this is a wee exaggeration. You reach up as high as you can and snap to branch A. Climb up till branch A is at your knees. Clip branch B, which is up near your head. Unclip branch A.

...If you were only hanging from one end of the tightly stretched lanyard, you might be completely unable to unclip from the single line you were hanging from...

This is the scenario that really worries me. In my case, I would be hanging from one side dee which would make any kind of maneuvering extremely difficult. Why am I so crazy that I still sometimes do this? There is one big hemlock near me I like to climb that illustrates the point. It is over 110 ft. tall, and from about 30' to 75' it is thick with sound limbs and a very fat trunk. It is slow going through that section, and even slower if you are constantly clipping and unclipping in the normal way. If a self-respecting monkey in the neighboring tree saw me doing this it would have to be thinking "What is wrong with that big primate? Even an elephant could climb that tree without ropes."

It would unquestionably be safer to clip in normally; I am merely suggesting that in a tree like my hemlock Tim's way is plenty safe enough.

 

[Tim'sTree]

I guess the bottom line is that if one is climbing in order to ideally place a DRT TIP, why not just set up your split-tail DRT system on the ground and use it as the second lanyard because you're going to have to do it later up in the tree anyways.

 

[pdqdl]

For the most part, I think you're right.

The two in one lanyard, if I am picturing this correctly, is a prussic loop in the middle of a longer than usual lanyard with a snap on each end. It is typically used to ascend a tree (usually using spurs) and used for work positioning, too. It's advantage is that a climber can spur up a large trunk to a large limb, throw the free end over the branch, clip to the belt, and then detach the other side of the lanyard. Used in this fashion, the climber is never unsecured while ascending past branches. Furthermore, the longer lanyard is really handy on huge trees when spurring up.

The modern trend of avoiding the use of spurs for trimming only makes this technique somewhat impractical. Use a throw-ball to set your climbing line, and go there much faster, safer, and easier. The 2 in one lanyard is still very practical for work positioning, and offers some advantages over a single, although the extra length can be annoying.

 

[TreeTopKid]

For the most part, I think you're right.

The two in one lanyard, if I am picturing this correctly, is a prussic loop in the middle of a longer than usual lanyard with a snap on each end. It is typically used to ascend a tree (usually using spurs) and used for work positioning, too. It's advantage is that a climber can spur up a large trunk to a large limb, throw the free end over the branch, clip to the belt, and then detach the other side of the lanyard. Used in this fashion, the climber is never unsecured while ascending past branches. Furthermore, the longer lanyard is really handy on huge trees when spurring up.

The modern trend of avoiding the use of spurs for trimming only makes this technique somewhat impractical. Use a throw-ball to set your climbing line, and go there much faster, safer, and easier. The 2 in one lanyard is still very practical for work positioning, and offers some advantages over a single, although the extra length can be annoying.

For years now I've been using very long home made lanyards using the best lengths of de-commissioned rope. I make a 2 ft long prussic (when tied) with a captive eye karibiner on it attached to 10-20 foot or longer) piece of rope with another captive eye karibiner it's like a whole second climbing system, it's light, and is more effective than most adjustable Lanyards (dependent on the quality of your rope!). I especially like using it when you've got dead tips. you can be at the end of a big limb drop to the end of the one below leaving your main line behind till you need it again (note : advisable to have another lanyard and some loop runners when doing this).

 

[davej]

Try double-ending a short rope. Maybe 20-30ft.

Edit-

And, of course, using two split-ends, because really, going back to the original question, it sounds like you are trying to compensate for the lanyard being too short.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Would it be acceptable practise to attach the adjustable prusik snap to my center D and loop one end snap around the tie-in piont and back onto the lanyard. Then when moving leap-frog the ends. Assuming the prusik won't slide off the end of the lanyard (care would be taken to keep the knot from getting sloppy and the snaps are large aluminum), are there any glaring problems? Thanks.

There are technical problems with what you propose, first you are deviating from designed use, so you are not within the SWL for twisted 3 strand flip line.

Second, you would be side-loading the snaps, this can bend the gate.

last, using the side d-rings gives you better balance.

I do know some guys who block down on an SRT type setup where a long tail is tied off to the carabiner used to choke the rope. This allows easy retrival.

the you connect to the rope with a Petzl iD or like descender.

 

[Tim'sTree]

For years now I've been using very long home made lanyards using the best lengths of de-commissioned rope. I make a 2 ft long prussic (when tied) with a captive eye karibiner on it attached to 10-20 foot or longer) piece of rope with another captive eye karibiner it's like a whole second climbing system, it's light, and is more effective than most adjustable Lanyards (dependent on the quality of your rope!). I especially like using it when you've got dead tips. you can be at the end of a big limb drop to the end of the one below leaving your main line behind till you need it again (note : advisable to have another lanyard and some loop runners when doing this).

Wouldn't it be easier to simply use one of those loop runners with a caribeaner on the big limb you are dropping from as a re-direct for your main climbing line?

 

[TreeTopKid]

Wouldn't it be easier to simply use one of those loop runners with a caribeaner on the big limb you are dropping from as a re-direct for your main climbing line?

I always carry at least four loop runners but not for quite the same application. On the kinds of Arb I work on generally speaking they are not long enough, and there is no adjustment. The captive eye biners make them an ideal weight for throwing too. Loop runners are invaluable though I love them.