200' redwood takedown

[DonnyO]

i would love to climb a redwood!

X100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

 

[Texas Traveler]

Well there doesn't seem to be to much stopping you.

LOL, he said climb it only. That is all i read.

 

[oldirty]

LOL, he said climb it only. That is all i read.

since this thread is derailed i will say this.


if its out in the forest.....i want to climb to the top and take it all in. knowing i will never get any higher than that point in my life.


if its in the backyard....i want to climb to the top and pop it, sending it down many hundreds of feet to the ground below. i want to taste the wood chips, i want to hear the sound of that top picking up speed on its way down. i want to come down another 30ft and call for a bigger saw so that i can lay this piece of wood over and drop down another 30 ft to do the same.

after that i want a bigger saw sent up my rope so that i can continue to send wood down, log truck ready, and hopefully in the process i end up covered in sawdust and sweat. knowing that no other fool i know would have the balls to pull off what i do for a living. and the best part of it is that i get paid to have the time of my life.


"i want to climb a redwood"

 

[M.D. Vaden]

pics murph!


good luck with it.

Please...

Photos - maybe a few moments of video.

One this is certain, if the stem is single, it's comparable to a big version of west coast evergreen tree removals.

Did someone say 400' of rope

 

[JeffL]

and the best part of it is that i get paid to have the time of my life.

I've been saying this since nearly day one of getting into the tree business just over a year ago. :greenchainsaw:

 

[murphy4trees]

thanks

Alright... thanks for all the input....
I called to get a litle more info about the tree... only left a message..
I was on the property many times in the past 14 years, but haven't been there for at least 8.. I do remember some big trees, but nothing more than 150-175' ( though it was hard to judge cause I wasn;t used to that kind of scale) and nothing with a whole lot of lean, though he is on the side of a mountain...

I doubt I'll be rigging much if any wood based on lack of equipment and inexperienced ground crew... I won't haul out the GRCS cause I AM flying... I Am really going out to see my 8 year old son.. he's always my priority and this tree was just mentioned to me on Friday.... I might have to haul all my gear with my X and son and their bags in her little 2-door Geo metro... SO The lighter I can travel the better... I don't even want to bring a port-a wrap, that's why I was thinking about the 8....

I AM thinking about bringing the big shot head, 2) 180' zing it (1.75mm) throw lines, kong dual handle ascneders, my regular bashlin aluminum spikes, an extra long lanyard, and I do have a 12-15' steel core lanyard that I've never used... my regular 150' spliced fly, and a fairly new 200' 1/2" double braid lowering line, and I have been meaning to get a new 200' true blue, so I might just have that deliverred there... I'll aslo bring an old version of the rope guide (though maybe Big Jon will let me use his new one), a lowering block, some loopies, pulleys and biners as redirtects etc, and a rigging biner and the 8 with a couple shackles and slings.. and some files...

My plan is to set a line with the throw line and either spike up on belay, or footlock up and get the spikes on in the tree... then hopefully I can brush out the lower section of the tree so it can clear the house when we drop it in one cut... Using one line to guy it and another as a pull line... Hopefully there is a good landing zone to the side of the house... It will be challenging to thread the needle on a 5' DBH redwood, though If I take my time (which I will) with the notch and backcut and have some good lines set I AM confident in precision falling... I rarely use wedges!

Any thoughts on using a plunge cut would be appreciated. normally I like to plunge anything that is bigger than the length of my bar. Would I be looking for a 2-4" hinge on a 5' redwood?

If the tree is going to be a lot more difficult than that, I'll either take a pass or do what I can and let some one out there finish it... My friend is pretty well connected, so he may be able to borrow a lot of professional gear and saws, as well as have chains and winches etc... One of my main concerns is the climbing saw... I have a little echo at my in laws, though I'd really like to have a stihl 192 w/ thin bar or a 200t... They don't let you fly with chainsaws anymore...

Thanks again..
Oh and my camera is missing... Guess I should find it by Tuesday...

 

[joesawer]

Please...

Photos - maybe a few moments of video.

One this is certain, if the stem is single, it's comparable to a big version of west coast evergreen tree removals.

Did someone say 400' of rope

I say "Sometimes 400' is not enough". It is also very heavy.


Oldirty- No disrespect, but don't disrespect these trees. He will need a lot more than some longer rope to do it safely.
Try a longer flip line, about a 20 footer, and the ability to work that long of a flip up the far side of the tree. Hard to do if you have never even seen some one do it. Many a climber has got their flip spoiled on the far side of a red wood and had to have some one help them get loose.
Longer gaffs, about 5" to 7" inches long.
Rigging to handle several thousand pounds.
Equipment to move the logs out of the way when he fills up the drop zone. A tree like that could load 3 or 4 log trucks.
He may be one of the best trimmers in the world, but on west coast take downs, you can throw away most of your trimming gear and start over with different gear. My primary saw in a tree was an 066 with a 32" to 42" inch bar. Now it is mostly a modded 372 with a 32" bar.

 

[clearance]

Good for you. I have climbed to 180' old growth, at least, not to remove, just to top (windfirming). I climb with Buckingham straight shank 3" spurs and use an 18' double ended steelcore with a steelcore prussic for big trees. It will go around that tree, no problem. You need a steelcore so you can flip it. Never climbed a redwood, but I have climbed big old red cedars. I mean fat and old, its a party when a large chunk of bark sticks on your spur and you have to shake it off.

Maybe you can just strip and chunk, perhaps you can hang branches and then cut them so they fall straight down. Maybe you can fall the whole thing, that would be nice, maybe you can get big logs pulled off. All maybees. If its causing a lot of doubt, walk, no shame at all.

 

[oldirty]

I say "Sometimes 400' is not enough". It is also very heavy.


Oldirty- No disrespect, but don't disrespect these trees. He will need a lot more than some longer rope to do it safely.
Try a longer flip line, about a 20 footer, and the ability to work that long of a flip up the far side of the tree. Hard to do if you have never even seen some one do it. Many a climber has got their flip spoiled on the far side of a red wood and had to have some one help them get loose.
Longer gaffs, about 5" to 7" inches long.
Rigging to handle several thousand pounds.
Equipment to move the logs out of the way when he fills up the drop zone. A tree like that could load 3 or 4 log trucks.
He may be one of the best trimmers in the world, but on west coast take downs, you can throw away most of your trimming gear and start over with different gear. My primary saw in a tree was an 066 with a 32" to 42" inch bar. Now it is mostly a modded 372 with a 32" bar.

no disrespect meant bud.

 

[joesawer]

Alright... thanks for all the input....
I called to get a litle more info about the tree... only left a message..
I was on the property many times in the past 14 years, but haven't been there for at least 8.. I do remember some big trees, but nothing more than 150-175' ( though it was hard to judge cause I wasn;t used to that kind of scale) and nothing with a whole lot of lean, though he is on the side of a mountain...

I doubt I'll be rigging much if any wood based on lack of equipment and inexperienced ground crew... I won't haul out the GRCS cause I AM flying... I Am really going out to see my 8 year old son.. he's always my priority and this tree was just mentioned to me on Friday.... I might have to haul all my gear with my X and son and their bags in her little 2-door Geo metro... SO The lighter I can travel the better... I don't even want to bring a port-a wrap, that's why I was thinking about the 8....

I AM thinking about bringing the big shot head, 2) 180' zing it (1.75mm) throw lines, kong dual handle ascneders, my regular bashlin aluminum spikes, an extra long lanyard, and I do have a 12-15' steel core lanyard that I've never used... my regular 150' spliced fly, and a fairly new 200' 1/2" double braid lowering line, and I have been meaning to get a new 200' true blue, so I might just have that deliverred there... I'll aslo bring an old version of the rope guide (though maybe Big Jon will let me use his new one), a lowering block, some loopies, pulleys and biners as redirtects etc, and a rigging biner and the 8 with a couple shackles and slings.. and some files...

My plan is to set a line with the throw line and either spike up on belay, or footlock up and get the spikes on in the tree... then hopefully I can brush out the lower section of the tree so it can clear the house when we drop it in one cut... Using one line to guy it and another as a pull line... Hopefully there is a good landing zone to the side of the house... It will be challenging to thread the needle on a 5' DBH redwood, though If I take my time (which I will) with the notch and backcut and have some good lines set I AM confident in precision falling... I rarely use wedges!

Any thoughts on using a plunge cut would be appreciated. normally I like to plunge anything that is bigger than the length of my bar. Would I be looking for a 2-4" hinge on a 5' redwood?

If the tree is going to be a lot more difficult than that, I'll either take a pass or do what I can and let some one out there finish it... My friend is pretty well connected, so he may be able to borrow a lot of professional gear and saws, as well as have chains and winches etc... One of my main concerns is the climbing saw... I have a little echo at my in laws, though I'd really like to have a stihl 192 w/ thin bar or a 200t... They don't let you fly with chainsaws anymore...

Thanks again..
Oh and my camera is missing... Guess I should find it by Tuesday...

The scale of the trees will really mess with your head. When I first came to CA, I kept asking myself where all the big trees where that they had been telling me about. Don't get me wrong, I cut a lot of 18" inch trees, but a 50" tree is not a big tree any more.
I have only cut a few red woods. They are rare this far south. The biggest one was over 60". But I have climbed several pines, firs and cedars larger than that. I have cut some oaks over 80" also.
Good thinking. Setting a line and ascending into big trees is much easier than spiking and flipping. But it is something of a trick to work on cutting the limbs as you go up on a srt.
As for your hinge, 4" would be very large for short pieces. Imo it might be kind of large for the whole tree, a lot of variables come into play. The thing you have to be carful of is the short log closing the face and not breaking the hinge. If it does you have created a mouse trap that will probably fall side ways when you do get the hinge to break. A sipe and fine hinge helps prevent this. I have never used a bore cut for a back cut on something that was not leaning very hard. In fact I have only used it a few times.
As for falling the whole tree side ways, that sounds like a good plan if you have the place to put it. Beware of the limbs it will throw if it touches another tree. Also beware of your guy line crossing another tree. You normally do not need as much stumpshot as most eastern abreast use. It has to split before the tree can move forward. Across a 5' hinge it can be a factor in making the tree hard to get started. Also in these trees they will often have spike knots hidden inside and if it is in the hinge area they will make the tree harder to get started and increase the chance of a barber chair. The high back cut increases the chance of having a spike knot in the hinge area. A few inches is usually enough.

 

[046]

sounds like quite the adventure coming up!! be safe...

 

[TimberMcPherson]

Travelling to jobs like this "blind" is tough, you can carry all the gear you want but you seldom bring everything you need, and that often means having to either take short cuts, working harder than you need to or taking bigger risks.

Either way it can be ugly. I cant remember the last time I visited family, went to a wedding (aside from my own) or stayed at friends when a tree job didnt just pop up. I have to say that the tree austria fits into my bag alot easier than my traverse. Borrowing and climbing with others saws stinks, not knowing how good the other guys are or how sound the gear is stinks, sometimes helping out your friends can cost you more than you can afford to loose.

I still do it, and do ugly stuff with sub standard gear (pruned my sisters willow with a 046 and carpenters saw) just be careful and dont over commit yourself!

 

[corsair4360]

Big Redwood

I live in southern Santa Clara County, and they have logged the redwoods out with a helicopter from the summit of Hecker Pass and the trees were not that tall or large diameter second or third growth. That logging was with a Boeing twin rotor helicopter. With the cost of running a big helicopter, that means the wood was very valuable, since it costs thousands for a helicopter of that size.

Given the value of old growth Redwood and the proximity to a home I would talk to Redwood Empire Lumber company in Santa Cruz and see if they are interested. Redwood Empire Sawmills 1395 41st Ave # D, Capitola, CA 95010 Phone: (831) 464-878 As I remember they do logging as well as sawmill, and specialize in Redwood.

If the tree is like many redwoods around here on the coast it is in a densely forested area with houses and is really 200 feet tall, it may require a big crane. Most of the Santa Cruz area is not even remotely flat were the redwoods are, and that makes it even more dicey.

My 2cents.

 

[rbtree]

murph, long time, no read.....


clear your pm box, or pm me.....

methinx you could use some help from a Bay area arbo.....

If the stick (at least the bottom 60 feet or so) can be flopped, it should be worth good $. Maybe enough for me to drive down with my gear.....
but surely there are local guys who can help.

I don't know the redwood market, but western red cedar is paying about $1200 mbf for logs of 32 feet and up, and $900 or so for 16-31.......

Three 20 foot redwood logs of 26, 32, and 36 inch diameters inside the bark, small end= 2720 bf, Scribner scale.....

 

[jomoco]

I'm not trying to dissuade you from doing the climbing on this redwood, in fact brushing a tree that size will be an experience for you in the sheer stamina it takes to deal with conifers in that size range. If you have to rope the brush, you'll be lucky to just brush it in one day.

The smart move in my opinion is to get a 120 ton hydrocrane with an experienced operator, that way you can take it down in 33 foot sections and sell the valuable wood to pay for the crane time.

Anyone with hands on experience in redwoods knows that trying to catch wood over 3 foot dia on these monsters is very problematic and requires oversized ropes and rigging as well as a very experienced climber who really knows exactly what he's doing, or else.

How much do you think a green redwood log that's 36 inches dia on one end, 40 inches on the other, and only 6 feet long weighs?

Go to this link, punch in the species and numbers I've given and check out what I'm saying to you.

http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/calculators/calc.pl

Work safe!

jomoco

 

[murphy4trees]

It's definitely not old growth...
He says we could probably drop it in one cut if we opened up the LZ by dropping another redwood... says he has a mill on site at this time.... I AM packing gear right now.. flying early AM... Just found out that US Airways is now charging $25 for the second checked bag... each way....

SO I may end doing minimal climbing and just set ropes and rig the lines and drop two trees... I suggested a cable since his real concern is the safety of the house.. If I find my camera soon, I may be able to post pics...

Thanks,

 

[clearance]

Maybe you can fall the whole thing, that would be nice,

I love it when maybees are possible. Fall it, undercut, backcut. Have fun.

 

[Old Monkey]

Have fun, be safe and if you mess up make sure it is caught on video.

 

[costello]

call link @ morreno or

Have fun, be safe and if you mess up make sure it is caught on video.

Lincoln, he has the info you might need regarding the local, he is in contact with the best contract feller removal persons. the store is only a stones throw from the location you described. link works @ sierra moreno mercantile, 650-967-4676, 1958 Latham Street, Mountain View, Ca.. the last hobbs i bought was being painted in the garage next door as i waited. the new hobbs are the best. this tree sounds like a cake walk. if you need assistance there are many in the area that will help you. nearest and best supply Webbs Farms, 831-475-1020, @ 5381 Old San Jose Rd, Soquel, i bought my first sierra moreno saddle there 15 years ago to replace a Klien that i swore would never wear out. the place is magic. you should call them if you need anything, eggs, butter, milk, or the name of a local who knows how the wood can be sold. wind will be up on 5-21 if the weather is like today all calm now be watchful of the noon-2pm it might really blow.

 

[rbtree]

How much do you think a green redwood log that's 36 inches dia on one end, 40 inches on the other, and only 6 feet long weighs?

Go to this link, punch in the species and numbers I've given and check out what I'm saying to you.

http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/calculators/calc.pl

Work safe!

jomoco

1762-1960 lb is what woodweb shows, old growth being heavier. But that site doesn't allow for all the variables.
There's a big difference in wood weights among the same species. Variables would be the time of year, how high in the tree the wood is (lower is always heavier), and perhaps the age of the tree.

I removed a young sequoia years back. We had to haul the wood, and I was amazed how heavy it was, so I cut an approximately 1 cubic foot piece, and weighed it. It was about 66 pounds...near the ground and in spring or summer. That is about the same as green oak! And 50% above woodweb's calc of ~44 lb per cubic foot, for ring dense old growth.

sounds like Murph might be able to fell the tree. That'd be cool, and doable if it only has a back lean of 5 degrees or so. If not, and given suitable ground, I'd pull log lengths over, 20-32 footers......piece of cake with the right ground gear and support.