30cc vs 50cc chainsaw for cutting 8" hardwood

[chainbrake]

I've not used an MS170. I worked on a clean up crew (disaster relief) with a guy that was running an MS180 and what I remember from that was that the chain speed was a noticeably slower than what I was accustomed to when running my 024, 026, and 036 saws. Same was true with my friends little Echo that I ran on a different trip. There are several things that influence the no-load chain speed on a saw, and no load chain speed is a decent indicator of the cut speed, but the chain speed in the cut is what's really important. My 036 is tuned to about 12,000 rpm, but it will walk all over my 50cc saws (tuned to 14,000) no matter how I set the 036 up. More displacement unusually means the RPM doesn't drop as much in the cut.

If the MS241 is the best 45-50cc saw you have access to, then I'd just keep the 30cc machine you have. My 024 is a lot slower than my 026 running the same bar and chain, and I'm guessing the same is true between the 241 and 261. If so, the difference between your 30cc saws and a 241 may not be noticeable. Realistically, if you're only cutting a rick of wood at a time, what you already have is fine. I'd just keep running what you have until its time for the machine to be replaced and then consider whether or not you should move up or not.

My 170 was really gutless, but I got it to run faster by removing the spark arrestor, bending the exhaust holes more open then retuning the carburetor. It seemed to give it 25% more power. It is nothing like my 400, but it has far less weight and less torque pulling on my arms when I am cutting sideways chest and head high for the really limby (not too hard hardwoods and softwoods). If I am in a hurry and want to leave everything less than 4" on the ground, I can dismember and block out a tree in a hurry with the 400. When I was younger, I would have stayed with a 60 cc or bigger pro saw all day long, but now that I am 69... and semi-retired.

 

[chainbrake]

My 170 was really gutless, but I got it to run faster by removing the spark arrestor, bending the exhaust holes more open then retuning the carburetor. It seemed to give it 25% more power. It is nothing like my 400, but it has far less weight and less torque pulling on my arms when I am cutting sideways chest and head high for the really limby (not too hard hardwoods and softwoods). If I am in a hurry and want to leave everything less than 4" on the ground, I can dismember and block out a tree in a hurry with the 400. When I was younger, I would have stayed with a 60 cc or bigger pro saw all day long, but now that I am 69... and semi-retired.

PPE is also important. Match your fallers pads with your saw speed:
https://www.stihl.ca/en/professional/useful-knowledge/occupational-safety/cut-protection

 

[Dacha]

PPE is also important. Match your fallers pads with your saw speed:
https://www.stihl.ca/en/professional/useful-knowledge/occupational-safety/cut-protection

My PPE:

Oregon Yukon all round trousers
Stihl hardhat with ear muffs and face mesh screen
Plastic glasses
Various leather gloves

I wear hiking / trekking shoes

Missing anything ?


Dont have wood sappie or felling and turning lever, which i feel could be useful.

 

[chainbrake]

My PPE:

Oregon Yukon all round trousers
Stihl hardhat with ear muffs and face mesh screen
Plastic glasses
Various leather gloves

I wear hiking / trekking shoes

Missing anything ?


Dont have wood sappie or felling and turning lever, which i feel could be useful.

Looks like you are thinking about safety, and gear yourself up.

I always wear logging boots (waterproof/insulated in the winter) but that is because I have the gear from the days when I used my saws to make more money than just cutting my own firewood. Bare minimum, I would go with steel toes under those pants of yours. Having learned the hard way and having lived with reduced mobility and strength in one of my hands/arms for more than 45 years, I tend to make sure my PPE and training meets or exceeds equipment. Injuries happen so quickly and are not worth taking risks. When I was young, I thought I was invincible.

 

[muddy42]

Full disclosure I am based in the UK. When people ask me about small saws I have two different recommendations, both equally valid. Either to buy a basic 30cc MS170 (or similar) for £150 or buy a professional 50cc MS261 for £800. Yes the second option gives you more power, is easier to fix and will last longer, but will it give you 5 times more use? (£800 divided by £150 = 5.33) I'm not sure. I think if you look after your saws, can replace parts, and use a saw lot the second option is more viable, but if you need to use a shop to service or replace parts, you're better off financially to treating saws as essentially disposable.

 

[Valpen]

Full disclosure I am based in the UK. When people ask me about small saws I have two different recommendations, both equally valid. Either to buy a basic 30cc MS170 (or similar) for £150 or buy a professional 50cc MS261 for £800. Yes the second option gives you more power, is easier to fix and will last longer, but will it give you 5 times more use? (£800 divided by £150 = 5.33) I'm not sure. I think if you look after your saws, can replace parts, and use a saw lot the second option is more viable, but if you need to use a shop to service or replace parts, you're better off financially to treating saws as essentially disposable.

What is your opinion of the MS201@35cc and MS241@42cc compared to the MS261 for handling 8" trees on sloping terrain?
Personally, I think 50cc is more weight and power than necessary...

 

[muddy42]

What is your opinion of the MS201@35cc and MS241@42cc compared to the MS261 for handling 8" trees on sloping terrain?
Personally, I think 50cc is more weight and power than necessary...

...then get a MS170 or even an electric saw.

The problem is the cost of these smaller cc professional saws is still too high for the weight/power you get (in the UK still £700 or so). If I was spending that money I would prefer to get an MS261 and fit a 13 inch bar and have something more versatile power-wise. Finally I don't know which 201 you are looking at, but I think one handed saws should only be used for climbing.

 

[Valpen]

...then get a MS170 or even an electric saw.

The problem is the cost of these smaller cc professional saws is still too high for the weight/power you get (in the UK still £700 or so). If I was spending that money I would prefer to get an MS261 and fit a 13 inch bar and have something more versatile power-wise. Finally I don't know which 201 you are looking at, but I think one handed saws should only be used for climbing.

I was referring to the rear handle MS201, not the top handle MS201T, sorry for the confusion...

 

[chainbrake]

What is your opinion of the MS201@35cc and MS241@42cc compared to the MS261 for handling 8" trees on sloping terrain?
Personally, I think 50cc is more weight and power than necessary...

Is this for commercial production, or is it for a home owner's needs? If that saw is going to harvest/manage 5+ acres of maturing forest (8+ inches), and the person using it is fit, then go with a pro saw like the Stihl 261 or a Husky 550 xp. I have had both of those saws, and they are good saws for small woodlot management.

If you are just using it for a household's annual firewood needs (5 cords or less) or for maintaining a small farm with a bit of woodland, then I say a midgrade "rancher"-style 40-50CC saw may be good enough. If a person has weak arms and legs, it is better to get a lighter saw, and take longer to do the work.

Pro saws have good resale value if they haven't been abused. You can always re-sell them.

 

[Tomos770]

Echo 2511 rear handle, l like it.

Would it cut 8" easy ? Guess so.

Look up his videos about tweaking his echo 2511....since he is your neighbour (komšija)....language wont represent an obstacle

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

I just went to rear handle 25cc to add to my clone 2511 25cc

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

Put this Egan pipe on it and wakes those 2511 up.

https://eganperformancesaws.com/collections/echo-exhaust-pipe

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

12" bar with the 3/8LP that came on the clone v-modest 2511. So IMO OEM 2511 rear handle will do 8" no problems.

Mine has the egan pipe that makes them come alive too.

OEM muffler is horrible plugged up inside.

Heck look at the 355 35cc rear handle 361 too https://www.echo-usa.com/chainsaws/cs-361p

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

Today OEM and clone 2511

 

[Tomos770]

Todays offer @Lidl....

https://www.lidl.si/p/parkside-mala-bencinska-verizna-zaga/p10067838

 

[Dacha]

Got 18 inch bar 3/8 picco, .050"

Going to try it out on ms170, to see how it works. Semi chisel chain.

Anyone tried 18" on ms170 ?

 

[Squareground3691]

Running 63PS on 14” , little ripper ,

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

 

[Valpen]

Got 18 inch bar 3/8 picco, .050"

Going to try it out on ms170, to see how it works. Semi chisel chain.

Anyone tried 18" on ms170 ?

Looks good!!
US spec Stihl MS170 recommends max bar length of 16".
But 18" should work if the hardwood you cutting is not too dense and you keep the chain sharp.
You might consider using safety chain so it doesn't bite too much (or keep your rakers a little high).
And as most will be about 8" or less in diameter you won't be bogging down a lot.
I don't think the MS 170 has an adjustable oiler, so make sure not to "work" the bar and chain too hard.

 

[WoodmanSr]

View attachment 1246195

Got 18 inch bar 3/8 picco, .050"

Going to try it out on ms170, to see how it works. Semi chisel chain.

Anyone tried 18" on ms170 ?

So I'm viewing Dacha choice of ms170 has merit for a particular reason.
>> Front Exhaust Outlet when flush stump cutting many many saplings / small trees... wondering about others thought on this. Side out exhaust buried in dirt & leaves.

I have future interest in an Echo trim saw but thinking twice about another clutch side exhaust outlet (cs2511, 355T, 361T, or similar).

Recently been using my Poulan 2000 w/14" bar & 3/8LP VXL chain to perform TSI Beech Thinning (timber stand improvement). This season tackling 1" to 8" ground story clearing. My approach presents 2 issues / lessons.

1) achieving square low stump cuts. Only able to get as low as comfortable where exhaust blasting ground matter. Else, use ground slope to help exhaust clearance, or bit of angle to final stump cut (leave more non-flush).
... I'd enjoy an Echo cs361P but seems worse than my Poulan 2000 for exhaust offset... worsens achieving a low stump. The cs2511P prehaps a bit better, less exhaust offset, although still directly blasting ground.
... so a small saw having Front Exhaust seems an advantage, for TSI work.

2) I'm using Oregon 91VXL as half cost of Stihl 63PS/PM. Prefer economy of Oregon chain but am aware Stihl picco likely superior. What's said is absolutely true, 91VXL chatters like mad in some situations. Hates biting into green Beech as shallow felling angle face cut or stump cut at root flares. Is fine on cross cuts but about miserable on off-angle or twisted grain. VXL chatters & if not cautious wedges cutters tight into wood grain. Slicks as hard as a pinched bar but simply that chain catches a few teeth & wedges locked up.

Following previous forum tips the 91VXL improves & much less drama. Fine for my purposes.
-- out of box; 5/32" file at 30° & .025" depth gauge
-- a more comfortable 'Beech' sharpening; 3/16" file at 25° & no lowered depth gauge, aiming to allow raker to lift to .022" - .020" before touching. Then plan, at half cutter, revert back to 5/32" file.
-- past experience VXL end of life sharpening 5/32" at 30° is quite fast. None of the out of box grabbiness.

FYI, doing a search here "VXL chatter" brings up many good discussions on Small Saws (ref cs2511 / cs361p) & the complaint about Oregon VXL. Sharing as ties into latest Echo cs2511 likes & may help others using less expensive 91VXL.
https://www.arboristsite.com/thread...ening-to-blount-products.297466/#post-5876227

https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/echo-cs3510-cs361p-chain.355285/#post-7598928

https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/best-small-tiny-rear-handle-chainsaw.348500/#post-7438436
... airframefixer 2020 -- whatever you get on these light saws stay away from Oregon vx or vxl chain. With these light saws, that chain tends to chatter pretty bad. Stihl ps is the way to go or the 1/4 pitch stihl chain.

Also, over on the other site where helpful filing recommendations.
Oregon 91VXL 3/8LP (out of box grabby & chatters, Magnus 2019) -- work at filing more "(" than "C" by using 4.5mm (3/16") file until half cutter length & reduced raker height.
& I do the same thing, using a 4.5mm (11/64") file to get less hook compared to the std 4.0mm (5/32") file.