40:1 50:1

[Former Saw Builder]

Amsoil

Ok I Switched to Synthetic... Seems great so far only need 1.3oz per gal.
only $108.00 for 3 gals. which is alot less then Stihl HP Ultra.

Saber™ Professional Synthetic 100:1 Pre-Mix 2-Cycle Oil (ATP)
AMSOIL Saber™ Professional (ATP) is formulated with exclusive AMSOIL synthetic base oils and premium additives. Designed for lean mix ratios in two-cycle motors, Saber 2-Cycle Oil has excellent lubricity and cleanliness properties to control friction and prevent wear, plug fouling, ring sticking and exhaust port blocking. AMSOIL Synthetic 100:1 2-Cycle Oils have been protecting and providing improved performance in two-cycle motors since 1973. ISO-L-EGD, JASO FD, API TC

 

[Lakeside53]

Stihl tested that oil for 500 hours at 50:1 and it was just average (I have the pictures and data somewhere). About the same results as the Stihl HP Super semi synthetic. "Unofficially" they say you can use Ultra at up to 80:1 in 4-mix engines, but not in 2 strokes. Given the EPA climate I'm sure they'd like to say you can use it at higher mix ratios... For 2 strokes that they are at to 50:1. Me? I'm just staying with 50:1, 4-mix or not.

 

[husq2100]

here's the thread i was talking about:

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=897

cheers serg

 

[Sprig]

Stihl tested that oil for 500 hours at 50:1 and it was just average (I have the pictures and data somewhere). About the same results as the Stihl HP Super semi synthetic. "Unofficially" they say you can use Ultra at up to 80:1 in 4-mix engines, but not in 2 strokes. Given the EPA climate I'm sure they'd like to say you can use it at higher mix ratios... For 2 strokes that they are at to 50:1. Me? I'm just staying with 50:1, 4-mix or not.

Ya ya I know this has come up often enough, Lake, if you ever dig that info up could you please please post here or somewhere easy to find, I myself am sort of curious. I am sort of wondering about the breakdown point of the oil itself (is that what you were talking about? No, engine performance, increased durability, less heat etc etc.), and if there are any public non-biased opinions or tech info regarding the after-test of the saws involved. I guess its my curious nature that is thinking, like, how are they evaluating these products, on what, and how much can we really trust big industry's standards when all they are doing and out there for is to sell their millions of, well, everything.
So what are the tests? What is the criteria? How much do we really get to know.
Personally I'd rather one of the gents do a wee field test for us all (and if I could I would), something like taking 20 junked but running mini-macs and take the of worst of the lot, run the high tech stuff through it, pick 1 r 2 of the good ones too. Do it incrimentally, so the best saw gets the worst crap commercially available. Then pick a night when your neighbours really pisased you foo, and invite a couple of people over maybe Tune all the saws, number them, (keeping in mind of course the treatment given per saw), maybe build a jig to hold the things, nah, Make sure there be a stop watch around (all tests should be reliably timed, not that saws'll blow up within a second or two). get those puppies started, and WOT them till they die! We could do it vicariously on line, place bets, have some fun with it, heck, you could send a person a saw (pre-mix (octane and mix brand) and oil instructions fer it) and have a contest blowing it up judged by the best vids and pics. No chains, (that'd be asking for trouble), wide open till it dies.
Now the thinking here ain't quite straight on my behalve, but, the idea is that, if the newer products are so great then even a carppy pos mabye, might have a chance. Several nice things about this poorly explained concept is that not only would it be sort of a double blind test, but because of the randomness of it you could be guessing on the treaments of them too.
We could do the 'raw' idea too. Every piece of junk that runs that u r dumping, give it a test. I know that tis will be impossible, just had an epiphany, if it runs don't throw it out, ok, nm, I have severly lost the thread here.
Anyhow, I think what I am saying is that I'd rather trust someone around here with an opion than anything else. Man thats sucky,bleh.
KK, I really gotta change tracks here, *I really did have a thought,really* :bang:









(this is what happens when relatives visit and everyone crashes 4 hours before your bed-time, and there's a litre of cranberry stilll left)






:rockn: umpkin2: :rockn:

(be glad you're not me in 4 hours)

 

[bwalker]

Stihl tested that oil for 500 hours at 50:1 and it was just average (I have the pictures and data somewhere). About the same results as the Stihl HP Super semi synthetic. "Unofficially" they say you can use Ultra at up to 80:1 in 4-mix engines, but not in 2 strokes. Given the EPA climate I'm sure they'd like to say you can use it at higher mix ratios... For 2 strokes that they are at to 50:1. Me? I'm just staying with 50:1, 4-mix or not.

That test while nice from a marketing standpoint isnt really a good measure of how a oil will perfrom in a saw.
It also cast Stihls orange bottle oil in a pretty bad light, which goes with what I have said/observed for years. Of course even orange bottle would have faired much better had the test been run differantly.

 

[Lakeside53]

The test had nothing to do with marketing... yes, they subsequently decided to print a brochure touting Ultra, but that has nothing to do with the original engineering tests.

A year or so back there were problems in BR500/550/600 blowers and they needed to figure out why. Simply.. was it what people were using in their mixes? Those 4-mix engines were susceptible to carbon buildup on the exhaust valve. 6 oils were tested - 3 stihl oil and 3 common competitor oils. The blowers were run at full power non-stop for 500 hours. The test showed that you needed to run with a semi-synthetic or a full synthetic in the blower 4 mix engines. Stihl's old "low smoke" oil was a disaster in that engine. It was made "low smoke" buy removing some of the anti-scuff additive.. bad move. The oil was withdrawn from the market and replaced with the HP super semi-synthetic. The dino (orange) oil had the same problem as the competing oils of the same type.

Basically.. if you don't temperature cycle a engine you'll increase the chances of carbon/ash buildup. The 4-mix trimmers had no such issue as the load varies. The blowers are typically run non-stop at full power for an entire tank which is why the test was performed like it was. Blowers run on HP super or Ultra (and other synthetic oils) aren't showing any problems at all.

Several other long run tests have been done since the original suite with other oils and mix ratios.

There's nothing inherently wrong with the dino oil... I know saws and 2 stroke blowers that have been run on it for 2-3000 hours, and they are in good shape for their age.

 

[bwalker]

Lake, your pretty much spot on with everything you said.
My point was a test designed to simulate a blower application doesnt read accross to a saw application. As such drawing any conclusion form the test as to how the test oils would perform in a saw is problematic.
BTW in regards to Stihls black bottle, low smoke oil. That oil was formulated with PIB(synthetic) replacing some of the brite stock. While they did remove some brite stock they added another anti scuff oil(PIB) to replace it.

FWIW Ultra is the best perfroming oil I have ran into when used in my Redmax strato charged blower.

 

[Lakeside53]

Yes, I should a have said it was a blower test...

 

[Outlaw5.0]

I just tried a bottle of the Stihl ultra with .95 gallon of premium fuel in my Stihl string edger, it was night and day difference. It idled better, less smell, and no more low speed spark plug fouling.

 

[WildnCrazyGuy]

Your dealers need to wake up and just try it. Bet they never have stocked it. We had the same concern, but found no price resistance. In any case, it's an easy "upsell"... Oh, they don't HAVE to sell it at $2.99.... in fact it sells for $1.99 out here, and there's a 50% margin in that price... if you do buy a 48 bottle case, I'd be looking for one hell of a price! BTW, the 6.4oz 2.5 gallon mix lists for $3.49 or so... we've dropped the dino except for a small qty of the 2.5 gallon mixes, and even stock 1 gallon containers of the HP Super.

OK, so I found one dealer so far in my area that carries the Stihl Ultra. He had the 2.6 and 6.4 mix bottles. I recently paid about 6.00 for a 6 pack of the 2.6 high performance orange bottles of Stihl. (Forgot to look at what this dealer was charging for it. Was so excited to actually touch the white bottles... ) Someone help me do the math here and I know I'm not comparing apples to apples, but I just paid 16.98 for the 6 pack of 6.4 oz mix. If I roughly paid 6.00 for the 6 pack of 2.6 oz bottles that will mix 6 gallons, that's about 1.00 per gallon of mix, right? Missing something??? If the 6 pack of 6.4 oz Ultra I just bought makes 15 gallons of mix, right? Then that equates to about 1.13 per gallon. .13 more cents per gallon and people are not buying it because it's too expensive? So what am I missing here? Did I do "fuzzy math"?

 

[GASoline71]

I dunno... I just buy it and mix it... who care what it cost "per gallon".

Gary

 

[rahtreelimbs]

I dunno... I just buy it and mix it... who care what it cost "per gallon".

Gary

Great post.............on a moot discussion!!!

 

[bwalker]

Its not moot when there are guys buying Stihl orange bottle at over double the cost of a very high quality synthetic like Mobil 2R.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Its not moot when there are guys buying Stihl orange bottle at over double the cost of a very high quality synthetic like Mobil 2R.

On that point I agree! I just feel for the difference in the amount of oil if you want to run 32/1 over 50/1 then do it!

 

[Lakeside53]

Apples and oranges...

If you want the convenience of 2.6 oz bottle, yes, all oil is expensive.


Compare size for size....

example 2.6 oz of orange oil lists for $1.29 (we sell it for 1$); 12.8 oz lists for $3.39.... ($3); 1 gallon for $22... 55 gallons.. you get the picture...


I buy gallons of Ultra and weigh it into 1 and 2 gallon mix bottles...

 

[GASoline71]

Great post.............on a moot discussion!!!

HAHAHA! That was my intention Rich!

Its not moot when there are guys buying Stihl orange bottle at over double the cost of a very high quality synthetic like Mobil 2R.

I agree Ben... I don't know how prices can differ as much as they do from dealer to dealer. It ain't just Stihl stuff either.

Gary

 

[bwalker]

Ultra cost $4 per 6.4 oz bottle form the local dealer. Thats the only size he has in stock.
Mobil 2R cost me about $8 bucks a quart.

 

[Lakeside53]

That's 50 cents more (list) than out here. Typical selling price is about $3.00.

Stihl has it in 2.6, 5.2, 6.4, 12.8, 1 gallon and 55 gallon drums. All your dealer has to do is order it for you. 1 gallon is a minimum of 6 at a time (case qty)..

Almost all of our pros just want 6 packs of 5.2 or 6.4, even though we'll get them gallons. They want the convenience and don't want the chance of their "guys" messing up the mix.

 

[bwalker]

I tried to order a gallon, but the dealer wouldnt unless I toook the whole case.
This is the same guy that couldnt understand why I wanted to order RM chain......

 

[Andyshine77]

So bwalker have you stopped running 2T altogether, or are you just experimenting with the HP Ultra?