460 bogging in willow.

[ericjeeper]

Maybe the rakers are way short

maybe the rakers are so low on the chain they are letting it dig to deep?

 

[wdchuck]

It ain't the rakers, Eric.

Put the 20" on, with the super safety crap ground down, but rakers set with gauge, about 40%tooth left. Hit the willow, had to purposely lift up on the rear handle to stop the chain, went to the punky maple, similiar, found a nice 19" piece of willow sticking out of the stack and trimmed it, started the bar at about 30*, got the spikes in good, and gave it hell, performed well, not jump and down great, but well. Then took it to the bench and tached it, 13,600, must run a little quicker with a smaller bar.

So, maybe the 24" bar is the culprit, it came with my 360, has been pinched plenty while I learned how to cut more proper. I could take pics of the bar, but the detail needed for you guys might not show up well.

 

[sugarbush]

It ain't the rakers, Eric.

Put the 20" on, with the super safety crap ground down, but rakers set with gauge, about 40%tooth left. Hit the willow, had to purposely lift up on the rear handle to stop the chain, went to the punky maple, similiar, found a nice 19" piece of willow sticking out of the stack and trimmed it, started the bar at about 30*, got the spikes in good, and gave it hell, performed well, not jump and down great, but well. Then took it to the bench and tached it, 13,600, must run a little quicker with a smaller bar.

So, maybe the 24" bar is the culprit, it came with my 360, has been pinched plenty while I learned how to cut more proper. I could take pics of the bar, but the detail needed for you guys might not show up well.

is that with stock muffler?

 

[wdchuck]

Okay, this run was with the DP muffler and the H screw let out to get 13,560 at the bench, and the 20"bar. Perception is that it performed better, little more torque, more effort required to stall the chain. Trimmed an elm stump(wet), was stallable, but went through without any effort.

Used the digital camera on movie setting for a stock muff cookie cut, and DP cookie cut. When I get the vids on the computer I'll be able to time the cuts and see if there's a difference.

 

[wdchuck]

is that with stock muffler?

Yes.

 

[windthrown]

Long winding road...

So... the rings are free to move, great compression cold and hot, back to stock muffler setup, runs bad with 24" bar but good with 20" bar. Man oh man... what a road to go down, eh? A pinched or bent 24" bar. Seems like that would/could indeed be a problem. Chain drag and friction from the bar would bog the saw down. Your 460 should eat through anything with a 24" bar on it even w/o the muffler mods. A 460 with a modified muffler should SCREAM through wood.

Now you are an expert at breaking your saw down, testing and adjusting everything on it. Congratulations. You may as well open a Stihl factory saw shop there now and debug the other saws in your area for $$$ :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[wdchuck]

So... the rings are free to move, great compression cold and hot, back to stock muffler setup, runs bad with 24" bar but good with 20" bar. Man oh man... what a road to go down, eh? A pinched or bent 24" bar. Seems like that would/could indeed be a problem. Chain drag and friction from the bar would bog the saw down. Your 460 should eat through anything with a 24" bar on it even w/o the muffler mods. A 460 with a modified muffler should SCREAM through wood.

Now you are an expert at breaking your saw down, testing and adjusting everything on it. Congratulations. You may as well open a Stihl factory saw shop there now and debug the other saws in your area for $$$ :hmm3grin2orange:

Yeah, the shingle will read Chainsaws Serviced, by "Breakem, Fast, and Goot."

 

[wdchuck]

It may be worth it to have the local shop check it, maybe a professional grind job would get it back in shape, or they will be able to tell me it's junk.

The other thing that would be helpful, is to get with another 460 owner who has muff modded the saw and compare apples to apples, give me a better idea of what to expect.

Scream through wood, not even close on this saw, ever.

THanks to everyone who helped with this, I certainly learned a lot.

 

[ericjeeper]

The other thing that would be helpful, is to get with another 460 owner who has muff modded the saw and compare apples to apples, give me a better idea of what to expect.

Scream through wood, not even close on this saw, ever.

Thanks to everyone who helped with this, I certainly learned a lot.[/QUOTE]

Bring it down on the 27th.. surely someone will be toting a 460. for comparison

 

[wdchuck]

Thanks for the invite Eric.

 

[PES+]

Can someone

Can someone post a pic of another 460 exhaust port?...the bottom of that port still bugs me

 

[Lakeside53]

In those pics it looks like the exhaust port is tapered on top AND on the bottom.....I have never seen this on a muffler 2-stroke but I can guess why they may do it (emissions reduction perhaps) If the piston crown never completely clears the bottom of the port, I would say you NEED the stock exhaust. Something doesn't look/feel right.

Hey Lakeside and other Stihlheads.....was there ever an EPA 460?

It's normal. The cylinders haven't changed in this respect and either muffler is just fine.

 

[Lakeside53]

Okay, went out and put it back to stock.
original muff cover
new plug in
low idle is at 2800
high turned out 1full turn= 14,120rpm after letting it warm up
....chain tension okay, could pull the chain backwards with bare fingers without much effort.
....put it into willow, bogged quick, could stop the chain fairly easily.
....next, put it into 40" silver(soft) maple that had fungi on it, kinda punky, same result.

Back to the bench, checked compression hot, 160+psi, repeatable.
....turned the H screw 1-1/4 turn out from stop = 13,200.
....same relults in both wood types, could pick up on rear handle and stop the chain no problem. Then it would sound the same as if the brake were on and you snapped the throttle.

Compression and RPM/carb settings - Exactly as expected with the dual port muffler.


The rest... hard to say... Doubt it's timing... Is is something really stupid like your fuel filter or inlet screen partially blocked?

 

[Lakeside53]

Can someone post a pic of another 460 exhaust port?...the bottom of that port still bugs me

They will all look the same! The 440 also.

 

[Lakeside53]

The other thing that would be helpful, is to get with another 460 owner who has muff modded the saw and compare apples to apples, give me a better idea of what to expect.

One clarification - it's NOT a modded muffler - it's a factory option, and makes a decent enough difference on the plus side that everyone should do it..

 

[wdchuck]

Today, I did check the fuel filter in the tank, it's white, thought about it when filling up, frequently suggested during t-shooting threads.

What's the inlet screen?

What's the white, plastic nipple for? If you look above the H/L screw holes, through the case gap, it's plainly visible. It's part of the white case mold, does air go in/out?

 

[windthrown]

460 not scream?

Man, a 460 with a muff mod and a non-safety chain should scream through wood. If not, then I dunno what wood. A fully modified hot saw? Clear cutters around here use mainly 440 and up size saws with some really insanely long bars on them (36-40 inch). They cut an insane number of trees a day here. Mostly doug fir, some alder and red cedar, but they also have to cut the hardwood trash trees like big leaf maple, madrone, and white oaks. Even my 'lil stock 290 will burn through doug fir and alder, and willow and cottonwood are simply butter. It really only bogs down in oak and madrone. Black oaks here give it a hard time, but that will also dull a chain pretty fast compared to other types of trees that I cut. A 290 has less than 2/3 the HP as a 460.

I would not bother getting the problem bar looked at, unless there is some other problem attributed to your saw head. Or it is a family heirloom. Toss it out. Its been enough trouble as it is. Or... sell it on Ebay. Heh heh heh...

 

[wdchuck]

Here's a pic of the white nipple I am inquiring about.

 

[wdchuck]

Man, a 460 with a muff mod and a non-safety chain should scream through wood. If not, then I dunno what wood. A fully modified hot saw? Clear cutters around here use mainly 440 and up size saws with some really insanely long bars on them (36-40 inch). They cut an insane number of trees a day here. Mostly doug fir, some alder and red cedar, but they also have to cut the hardwood trash trees like big leaf maple, madrone, and white oaks. Even my 'lil stock 290 will burn through doug fir and alder, and willow and cottonwood are simply butter. It really only bogs down in oak and madrone. Black oaks here give it a hard time, but that will also dull a chain pretty fast compared to other types of trees that I cut. A 290 has less than 2/3 the HP as a 460.

I would not bother getting the problem bar looked at, unless there is some other problem attributed to your saw head. Or it is a family heirloom. Toss it out. Its been enough trouble as it is. Or... sell it on Ebay. Heh heh heh...

Yer havin a beer ain't ya.:hmm3grin2orange:

This is a solvable problem, I need to find out why this saw is acting the way it is.

 

[PES+]

You may have a wonky coil......no advance that would DEFINATELY cause the bog...AND let it rev like heck unloaded