6m white gum and new chain critique

[Jimbo209]

Spun a new chain to go with this log,
Hitting the rakers hard with a normal double bit file 3strokes on the top and one on the front to round off

Have just got this dropped off to have a go with, think it'll have to go in to 2 pieces though to handle it

 

[Whizbang]

hey Jimbo,
Is the white green or seasoned?
Do rakers make a difference?

 

[BobL]

James, The RH raker looks lower than the LH rakers but that's almost certainly a perspective thing because you are using too wide a flat reference on top of the cutters. Instead of a file try using a steel edge ruler standing on its edge on top of the cutters.
Like this

Do rakers make a difference?

Absolutely - combined with the top and side plate filing angles (these two determine cutter "hook") the raker depth determines the amount of wood grabbed by each cutter. If the raker is too high it doesn't matter what the hook is the cutter will not bite far enough into the wood and just make a lot of fine dust. If the raker is too low it will grab too much wood and if it is low enough this can stall the saw.

 

[Whizbang]

James, The RH raker looks lower than the LH rakers but that's almost certainly a perspective thing because you are using too wide a flat reference on top of the cutters. Instead of a file try using a steel edge ruler standing on its edge on top of the cutters.
Like this

Absolutely - combined with the top and side plate filing angles (these two determine cutter "hook") the raker depth determines the amount of wood grabbed by each cutter. If the raker is too high it doesn't matter what the hook is the cutter will not bite far enough into the wood and just make a lot of fine dust. If the raker is too low it will grab too much wood and if it is low enough this can stall the saw.

Thanks Bob. knowledge is everything when milling WA natives. i do adjust my rakers according to timber hardness and seasoning (green - dry etc..) pitty i'm no good with computers and only got half a post out earlier!
Looking at Jimbo's pics i am alittle concerned they maybe a little low for dry White, in most dry gums i keep the rakers around 25 thou on 27RA chain. so far it has served me well.

 

[Jimbo209]

Green last week. Not much real dry so farI did end up breaking it down to 3m + 2.5m as well

Do have one log and I just go by the feel and take my time, also kills the edge, I have pages to hatred and skits the bar in to the bolts on the mill frame in that log.
this latest one with that chain went real quick to start with even got a bit of wash boarding on the first cut

Gradually moving to 10*

Rakers go by degrees see bobs posts,
I started with a big hit as I knew it was going into green wood
Cheers
James

 

[Jimbo209]

RH/LH off possibly waiting for MCW to send the wheels for the tecomec speedsharp to do the rakers on

I forget how much this chain pic has cut, sorry it's upside down

 

[Whizbang]

That's a nice piece of timber Jimbo.
I'll try to do my rakers by degrees but i don't often have that much time to spend on my ripping chains. Touching up the 72" on site can be a long process when i'm using R or RA chain.
Not so bad with RX though.
Anyway i got a green pine or two to mill on Sunday and after last weeks lack of time in the cut, I might have to use a square chis chain with the rakers torn off just o make a day of it and let the saw work a bit!

 

[Jimbo209]

That's a nice piece of timber Jimbo.
I'll try to do my rakers by degrees but i don't often have that much time to spend on my ripping chains. Touching up the 72" on site can be a long process when i'm using R or RA chain.
Not so bad with RX though.
Anyway i got a green pine or two to mill on Sunday and after last weeks lack of time in the cut, I might have to use a square chis chain with the rakers torn off just o make a day of it and let the saw work a bit!

I have some pine to mill at some point in bullsbrook

get a picture and vid tomorrow of where it sits now

 

[Whizbang]

The Sunday pine has some nice features to it, but it wasn't the challenge I was hoping for. Will try to get photos this weekend when we take the rail for a run in some gnarly pine.
The pic is from a rather large Marri we slabbed about 3 years ago! Those were the days of sawdust, sun and laughter.

 

[Whizbang]

most of this was cut with an extended skip chain the rakers are at 17 degrees and it was all sweet!
See! I learnt how to measure them now

 

[Iron.and.bark]

Westfords mill mate? What are those like to use?

 

[Whizbang]

Westford trolley and mount, my own custom rail.
The mill as a whole is simple to use and quick in the cut.
Setting up the rail can take a little time but is well worth the effort. The saw seems a lot happier at a more natural angle.

 

[BobL]

most of this was cut with an extended skip chain the rakers are at 17 degrees and it was all sweet! [/ATTACH]

When you say the rakers are at 17º what do you mean exactly.
1) the top of the rakers are at an angle of 17º
2) The angle between wood - cutter tip - raker tip is 17º
3) something else

in most dry gums i keep the rakers around 25 thou on 27RA chain. so far it has served me well.

25"' is a fixed raker height.
This works OK for new chains but as cutters get worn the chain will become increasingly inefficient at cutting and start making fewer chips and a lot more dust.
Much more needs to be taken off rakers to make worn chains cut efficiently.
This is called "progressive raker setting"

Fo example in hard Western Australian Hardwoods (nearly all are harder when green, than when Hickory is dry) I start at 28"' on new chains.
All my chains are full comp 3/8 and I use an 880 with up to a 60" bar on large logs. On smaller I use a 441 with a 25" bar and lopro chain.
I increase the raker depth progressive so that when the gullet reaches 0.35" wide I'm using around 40"' raker depth, by the end of the cutters life where the gullet reaches 1/2 an inch the raker depths are 55"'.
This keeps the chain cutting like a demon all the way through its life.

On softwoods I would start at around 35"' and progress form there.

This was recognised by Oregon many years ago when they release a set of Raker depth gauges that ranged from 25"' to 50"' but few chainsaw users know about this.
I have posted ad nauseum on this - the most detailed thread about progressive sharpening of rakers is in the HOT SAW chains sharpening forum on this site.
http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...ly-progressive-depth-raker-generators.114624/

The downside is more chain vibe so meticulous bar and chain hygiene practices are needed.

 

[Iron.and.bark]

Westford trolley and mount, my own custom rail.
The mill as a whole is simple to use and quick in the cut.
Setting up the rail can take a little time but is well worth the effort. The saw seems a lot happier at a more natural angle.View attachment 453819

Looks pretty good, probably better on the bottom end of the saw aswell. Wouldn't work to well for the irregular shaped sheoak I mill though

Presume that's a 3120 by the pic, is it still stock?

Been milling some burnt sheoak off a property that got hit by those northcliff fires and have really noticed the 3120 getting the air filter blocked and a far greater performance hit since I modded it compared to stock. Still a wash in petrol and it is clean again.

 

[Whizbang]

Thanks BobL, you got me!
For years i have sharpened my ripping chains according to the timber being milled, but the rakers have always been set at 35 thou to 40 thou depending on timber condition.
17 degrees is the angle i managed to ramp the raker. Purely by chance.
For me it is about the fun of the hobby and not so much the science, most of the timber goes to Men's Sheds or woodworking clubs.
You have a lot of knowledge my wise friend and i will put what you tell us here into practice as i find the time to do so.

 

[BobL]

Thanks BobL, you got me!

Sorry I didn't mean to do this - I was just asking because I wanted to be clear what you meant.
There are lots of newbies reading these forums and I just wanted them to be clear.
As you will know if they were to set their rakers too deep they will find the chain will grab so hard it will not cut.

For years i have sharpened my ripping chains according to the timber being milled, but the rakers have always been set at 35 thou to 40 thou depending on timber condition.

I don't want to labour this but 35"' to 40"' os not consistent with what you said in post mumber 4 above where you stated " in most dry gums i keep the rakers around 25 thou on 27RA chain. so far it has served me well.;

17 degrees is the angle i managed to ramp the raker. Purely by chance.

Once again just making it clear that the angle of any slope or ramp pf the top of raker is not the angle referred to in Progressive raker depth setting.
This is what I mean by Raker Angle - it's the angle between the wood - the cutter tip and the topmost point of the raker.

The top of the raker in this picture is rounded over so it has no specific angle
The Raker top can also be dead flat with just a rounded front corner.
Ramped rakers with pointed tops act like slightly deeper rakers - here it starts to get technical so I will stop at this point.

[QUOTEFor me it is about the fun of the hobby and not so much the science, most of the timber goes to Men's Sheds or woodworking clubs.

Sure I can appreciate this. It's [robably because I was trained as a physical scientist that I can get as much fun from accurate measurements and testing , as I do from cutting.
Some of my timber has gone to the Manning Mens Shed, where I am also a member, Melville Wood Turners and members of the Fine Wood Working Association of WA.

You have a lot of knowledge my wise friend and i will put what you tell us here into practice as i find the time to do so.

Everyone I know that has tried progressive raker setting has at lest been pleasantly surprised at how well it work especially as the chain gets more and more worn.

 

[Whizbang]

Looks pretty good, probably better on the bottom end of the saw aswell. Wouldn't work to well for the irregular shaped sheoak I mill though

Presume that's a 3120 by the pic, is it still stock?

Been milling some burnt sheoak off a property that got hit by those northcliff fires and have really noticed the 3120 getting the air filter blocked and a far greater performance hit since I modded it compared to stock. Still a wash in petrol and it is clean again.

Stock as it should've been out the box.
3120 carbys will suck a golf ball through a garden hose, the air filter will clog quickly. Did you take the filter cover out of the equation?

 

[Whizbang]

Thanks BobL,
Newbies learn from the mistakes and trials of the wise. I am yet to become wise, but i am learning.
I'm trying to organise a "come and have a go" day through my local Husqy shop, the biggest hurdle at the moment is the shire!!
If i can persuade them to allow it would come along and share some knowledge? There are three experienced climber/fellers, a safety trainer and industry reps that may give some time.
A sort of field day here in Perth.

 

[Iron.and.bark]

Stock as it should've been out the box.
3120 carbys will suck a golf ball through a garden hose, the air filter will clog quickly. Did you take the filter cover out of the equation?

I suspect mine can suck a cricket ball through a garden hose now

It always got clogged quickly, but more power requires more air in, so filter chokes the saw quicker. Not sure exactly what you mean by taking the cover out of the question.

My 3120 was always a pretty gutless beast for it size and ran rich as heck. Here is why


Read the size on the fixed jet, needed to port the intake, exhaust and remodel the muffler and it still sits at 11-11.5 full throttle. Ordered a replacement jet according to factory specs to ream out (1.16mm to 1.18mm) before pulling the carb apart but as you can see from the pic it was unnecessary.

 

[BobL]

Been milling some burnt sheoak off a property that got hit by those northcliff fires and have really noticed the 3120 getting the air filter blocked .

I agree dry Sheoak generates a lot of dust.

The 880 like I have on my mill is not known for its filtration ability but I rarely need to clean the filter during a day of milling I usually removed the filter around midday and knock the loose dust off but most of the time it doesn't really need it. Some of this lack of dust on the filter I attribute to the modded rear facing exhaust which blows the sawdust well away from the mill as soon as it is ejected from the saw. The other factor is I noticed filtration improved on all my saws when I moved to Progressive Raker Adjustment probably because this makes less dust than other methods.

On the 076 with the rear side exhaust, the sawdust is ejected from the saw before the exhaust stream and falls at the operators feel, the filters get dirty quicker than the 880.

Thanks BobL,
Newbies learn from the mistakes and trials of the wise. I am yet to become wise, but i am learning.

We're all learning one way or another. Logs are natural products so every one is different and I try to approach every log with a fresh look - that way I minimise stuffups - well that's the theory anyway .

I'm trying to organise a "come and have a go" day through my local Husqy shop, the biggest hurdle at the moment is the shire!!
If i can persuade them to allow it would come along and share some knowledge? There are three experienced climber/fellers, a safety trainer and industry reps that may give some time.
A sort of field day here in Perth.

Sure, I could also arrange to bring some of my gear along if you like, I could also run a demo on chain sharpening?
I haven't used my gear for the last 6 months so it will take me some time to get all the stuff back together - try and give me as much notice as you can.
Not sure how Stihl Saws will go down in a Husky shop .
I'm not a welded on Stihl diehard, one of my mates has Husky's and I really like them. I only ended up with Stihls on my mills because I got offered a deal too good to refuse.

.