A Tale of Three Saws

[MacLaren]

I honeslty mean no disrespect to anyone. Seein how I know little to nothin about saws Im just gonna hush before I get in over my head.

 

[AUSSIE1]

Its real hard to say just listing and watching videos but it "sounds" like both 066's are being loaded about the same (good job of running them) you can here them both pull down in the power band about the same.
I'm curious what would happen if you do take the rakers down.
personally "I" think you make be going the wrong way. Try filing the chain back some and leave them where they are and try it on the 066.

Yep, that's the route I would take. If you did take the rackers down which may be fine for softwood, you may find it too much in hardwood.

 

[MacLaren]

I would certainly love to visit Australia sometime though. That is definetly some of the prettiest country in the world.

 

[AUSSIE1]

I honeslty mean no disrespect to anyone. Seein how I know little to nothin about saws Im just gonna hush before I get in over my head.

You should be right mate. Didn't see you were being disrespectful to anyone in particular. Just a common question as to why a ported saw doesn't show the full potential in smaller wood.

 

[AUSSIE1]

I would certainly love to visit Australia sometime though. That is definetly some of the prettiest country in the world.

Damn right, but we aren't silly enough to think there isn't equally or better beaut places around the world. You guy's do alright over there yourselves. One place I'd like to visit for sure.

 

[MacLaren]

Damn right, but we aren't silly enough to think there isn't equally or better beaut places around the world. You guy's do alright over there yourselves. One place I'd like to visit for sure.

Thank you sir. I appreciate that. But man oh man Australia is just very,very unique.

 

[Stihlman441]

I honeslty mean no disrespect to anyone. Seein how I know little to nothin about saws Im just gonna hush before I get in over my head.

We are pretty thick skinned down here its going to take a lot to upset most of us.
Thats why you are here on AS to read and lern a little as ya go,its all good.

 

[AUSSIE1]

We are pretty thick skinned down here its going to take a lot to upset most of us.
Thats why you are here on AS to read and lern a little as ya go,its all good.

Lol, yes Andrew, we know how to sling it, we better know how to take it!

 

[MCW]

Its real hard to say just listing and watching videos but it "sounds" like both 066's are being loaded about the same (good job of running them) you can here them both pull down in the power band about the same.
I'm curious what would happen if you do take the rakers down.
personally "I" think you make be going the wrong way. Try filing the chain back some and leave them where they are and try it on the 066.

Hey thanks for poking your nose in Eric and I certainly appreciate your input. What I found when I was running this 660 was that it showed many similar characteristics to my 3120. It doesn't matter whether you have a 25" bar on it or a 32", it pulls it the same. Put it this way, a 32" 3/8" .063" 105DL semi chisel chain with aggressive rakers was pulled easily by this 660 with an 8 pin rim (as in the video below). On my modded 390XP it certainly wouldn't pull the exact same chain with an 8 pin in Casuarina without bulk stalling and it was marginal even with a 7 pin rim. If I put 24" bars on both saws with the same setup chain the 390XP and this 660 would be neck and neck.

No matter how good somebody mods a 660 it ain't gonna fill a 28 odd cc torque gap!

I here what you are saying cc s are everything,i put the 880 in there for my own interest.I suppose deep down i am trying to find out if i can live without it or not,but i have a soft spot in my hard for it,dont know why,its heavy,hard to handle,likes a drink but gee it sounds good but.
I would love to send it to Brad,get it modded and throw away that rev limitter,know that would be a weapond.

If you modded your 880 it wouldn't be allowed back in Australia under the current terrorism legislation.

Unless Im way off on my math then you have a gain of 2.27% from stock vs. modded on your 660. The times i got were as follows
Stock 9.60 & 8.13
Snelleriized 9.34 & 7.78

Thats not much in the way of gains at all. Am I missing something here? Shouldnt a modded saw get atleast about 15% more?

As Al mentioned on smaller wood extra torque isn't as noticable. On larger bars in bigger wood is where this 660 shines. By the way nobody here took what you said personally or anything and we all appreciate each other's posts. You are indeed correct by looking at Andrew's video that it looks as if the modified saw isn't much faster. Many people would therefore ask "why bother?" but in this case there is a bit more to it than that as you simply can't see torque
The videos below are also posted in my other thread but this will give you some idea of the grunt this 660 has. This is some pretty hard wood too...

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xY6DRhr9e_o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YprawJ1vV58" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And the 390XP with same chain as the 660 in the first video but with a 7 pin rim and in smaller wood. This is the same 390XP this thread was based on - I still love the Huskys though ...

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/R3ly53RLGYA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[MCW]

Yep, that's the route I would take. If you did take the rackers down which may be fine for softwood, you may find it too much in hardwood.

Yeah Al you're right. I think we came to that conclusion that time at your place with my modded Makita. The chains that I'd been successfully using in Tasmania sort of, um, well, stalled lots in that hard Red Box log you had.
However, I've had pretty good results with lower rakers as I run less hook than most. I'm no chain expert but I believe you can get a chain that wears well (less hook) yet still get it to cut fast (lower rakers). It's worked for me with the wood I cut and the saws I have. In fact a standard out of the box chain no matter what the brand is is slow as far as I'm concerned. I don't even use a new chain unless I've dropped the rakers.

I would certainly love to visit Australia sometime though. That is definetly some of the prettiest country in the world.

Drop in while you're here Like Al said, if I do visit any overseas countries the US will be first on my list.

 

[Stihlman441]

Drop in while you're here Like Al said, if I do visit any overseas countries the US will be first on my list.[/QUOTE]

If ya go over to the us Matt can we organise a shipping container full of saws and stuff.:msp_thumbsup:

 

[MCW]

If ya go over to the us Matt can we organise a shipping container full of saws and stuff.:msp_thumbsup:

Why of course mate I wouldn't have it any other way...

They'd be all my saws though? No room for yours...

 

[ECsaws]

So let me get this rite, Your saying that a Modded saw has more torque" ("should" have I agree).
But if your trying to convince me that a modded saw wont show its power only in BIG wood I say BS!!!!! I dont care what you have ben feed !! power is power no matter what size or kind of wood when the "same peace" is used for comparison .
Its quite simple really, if the modded saw has more power you should be able to load the saw harder (push) making it cut faster not pulling out of the powerband as quick, thats what torque is all about.... its all about "holding RPM's in the cut".
The Video that stihlman441 posted he did a great job of running the saws both saws came off there power bands (pulled down) so how can we say it takes bigger wood to load the modded saw ?
I'm not by any means discrediting anyone here but I havent spent the last 10 years figuring out how to make there saws and chains cut faster to be BS'ed about small wood VS big wood ... wood is wood as long as all is "equal", I dont see how it could have been anymore equal in stihlman441 video.
"IMO" the only way to make that modded saw cut faster is to file the chain back so the saw stays at its peak RPM, with the narrower band use the higher RPM to make the gains.

 

[AUSSIE1]

So let me get this rite, Your saying that a Modded saw has more torque" ("should" have I agree).
But if your trying to convince me that a modded saw wont show its power only in BIG wood I say BS!!!!! I dont care what you have ben feed !! power is power no matter what size or kind of wood when the "same peace" is used for comparison .
Its quite simple really, if the modded saw has more power you should be able to load the saw harder (push) making it cut faster not pulling out of the powerband as quick, thats what torque is all about.... its all about "holding RPM's in the cut".
The Video that stihlman441 posted he did a great job of running the saws both saws came off there power bands (pulled down) so how can we say it takes bigger wood to load the modded saw ?
I'm not by any means discrediting anyone here but I havent spent the last 10 years figuring out how to make there saws and chains cut faster to be BS'ed about small wood VS big wood ... wood is wood as long as all is "equal", I dont see how it could have been anymore equal in stihlman441 video.
"IMO" the only way to make that modded saw cut faster is to file the chain back so the saw stays at its peak RPM, with the narrower band use the higher RPM to make the gains.

Heavy duty post!
No one's BS'ing you as the responses weren't direct to you. Convince you? Who is trying to convince you?
Most have commented on what they have experienced, be it right or wrong. They are entitled to it regardless of what those on pedestals may think.

 

[parrisw]

Drop in while you're here Like Al said, if I do visit any overseas countries the US will be first on my list.

AHHHHHHHEEEEEEEMMMMMMMMM Cough, Cough, Cough!!!!

 

[AUSSIE1]

AHHHHHHHEEEEEEEMMMMMMMMM Cough, Cough, Cough!!!!

Of course it goes without saying Will, we'd pop over the border.

Just make sure the fridge is full and the boat fueled!

 

[parrisw]

Of course it goes without saying Will, we'd pop over the border.

Just make sure the fridge is full and the boat fueled!

Lots of beer in there now, can't promise nothing though, doesn't last long. Well, the boat is in a few pieces now hope to have it ready for the summer.

 

[blsnelling]

The MS660 is back together and running. Throttle response is extremely snappy. Max RPMs are 14,300. I have it tuned to about 13,900-14,000.

Snellerized 660
Muf mod dual port
Woods ported,cylinder machined lowered
Popup piston
8 pin rim
25'' bar
Fuel BP Ultimate 98 Mobile 1 T2 @40;1
w/o 13800 rpm

Give her a few more RPMs. Also use the exact same bar and chain next time. You can clearly hear the modded 660 is turning more RPMs in the cut. Why the times don't show more difference is odd.

 

[parrisw]

Give her a few more RPMs. Also use the exact same bar and chain next time. You can clearly hear the modded 660 is turning more RPMs in the cut. Why the times don't show more difference is odd.

It looks as if he loaded the saws about the same. As others have said the modded saw should take more load and hold the same RPM. Maybe its a case of some chains can only cut so fast, until you do something about it.

 

[MCW]

It looks as if he loaded the saws about the same. As others have said the modded saw should take more load and hold the same RPM. Maybe its a case of some chains can only cut so fast, until you do something about it.

I agree Will. In my experience with stock raker heights there is only so much pushing you can do. There reaches a point where it simply won't cut faster - it also depends a lot on the wood you're cutting. Once you start playing with angles and raker height is where you start to notice the torque - the torquier saws won't bog and will hold their revs. I'm no expert and generally only run semi chisel in a work type environment but I can confidently say that in my experience that is the case. As per my "Today's Job" thread I spent a lot of hours just cutting with a wide variety of saws at my disposal and had the opportunity to play with raker heights, cutter angles etc etc etc. Actually more through boredom than anything It was very noticable with what worked and what didn't - in that wood.
Put it this way, my modded 390XP will kick a stock 660's butt, however it has nowhere near the grunt of the modded 660 in Andrew's video. With stock chain I can assure you there isn't much in it, when the chain is set up more aggressively the 660 gives my 390 a solid whipping. That is instantly noticable too and not something attributed to any saw brand loyalties I have (well actually I don't have any!). There is a reason why I want to sell the 660, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the grunt of it. It is not far off my stock 3120 at all with bars around 32" and that says something. It also becomes even more evident in some of the super hard wood I've cut with it.