Adjustable Cinch Carabiner

[AviD]

Hey all, I currently have a lineman style climbing belt that has two D loops attached to the waist of the belt. The climbing rope is attached to one D loop and the other goes through this Cinch Type Carabiner, but the Carabiner really isn't a Carabiner.

Its more of a Threaded Hook with a Thumb "Button" where when you push it down the threaded line can be pulled through the Hook and when you let go it Cinches down on it. You can then Hook up to the other D ring to secure the rope and pull the rope through to take up the slack and tighten things up.

I am looking for another one of these Cinch type Hooks, but can't seem to find one anywhere.

Basically what I want to do, or actually what I do when climbing a tree is the following:

1) I push the button down and pull enough rope out to fit the circumference of the tree.

2) I throw the rope and hook around the tree and secure it to the D ring

3) Tight up the slack line so I can lean back comfortably and work on the tree.

I figure there is either a name for these "Hooks" that I just can't seem to find

OR

There is a much better way to secure yourself when you are up in a tree for hands free operation.

Something worth noting is I need to be highly mobile. I may be deep in the woods somewhere so I don't want to carry alot with me. The "Hook" is the most ideal, because it attaches (is threaded) with the line and there it stays. Very light weight, strong, and easy to use (1 hand operation).


Any thoughts, recommendations, and/or guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Let me know if any additional clarification is needed.

Thanks!

 

[jblimbwalker]

Not sure of the hook you speak of, but click on the link, top of page and check out the Microcender, Grillion, etc. Get one of these and you'll be looking back at that there hook and laughing.

 

[AviD]

Interesting...that does look pretty neat, but overkill for my purposes.

The price alone is disturbing!

I can get a section of rope (6 feet or so) for about $3 and throw this "Hook" on...probably all for under $30.

What is the Adapter the Grillion has on it with the lanyard? That thing that locks when weight is applied and allows the line to pass through when the weight is taken off?

I figure I can achieve that weight load by simply leaning back and then coming forward to take it off.

The nature of that "adapter" is what Im looking for. Something I can trim slack line in with and then lock it down so I can work. When I need to move, unlock it...let some slack out...and move on.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I have a Grillon, and it can let out rope or pull slack when loaded.

I'm using a Distal hitch right now, using a quick link, 5/16 stable braid and light pulley. total cost around 18 bucks.

It all depends on how much one spends on the pulley.

Search this forum, there are many posts on the distal and swabish (very similar knots) hitches.

 

[AviD]

No, the application is for hunting...so I am using what they call screw in steps.

Interesting question comes to mind, since many of you are very knowledgeable on trees.

Do you think screw in steps permanently damage trees? I have been using them for years, and often the same tree(s) year after year and have never seen a problem. The holes just seem to refill in after a relatively short time. Mostly climbing pitch pines oaks, cedars, and occassionally gum trees.

Well anyway, thats how I climb. I get up there with the steps and then like to secure my rope around the tree, tighten it down, and then maneuver to hang my treestands...which requires both hands.

I've thought of using pole climbers, but alot of guys have recommended not using them due primary to safety and oddly enough damage to the trees. I've seen some cedars really torn apart from the pole climbers...

Let me know what you think and if you have any recommendations.


Thanks!

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Brian,

You're excercising extreme self discipline, I could hear your steaming all the way up here in MN

AviD,

Are you trolling or serious? Smells trollish to me.

You won't get any justification for poking holes in trees from people on this forum. Be ready to get ripped.

You wound the tree every time you poke a hole through the bark. The reason it doesn't seem to "hurt" the tree is because the tree grows a new layer of tissue and attempts to close over the hole you poked the year before. The tree would/wood be better off if you left the screw-ins inplace instead of making new holes every year.

In MN more people die from tree climbing accidents during hunting season than any on ground accidents. Does that tell you something?

Tom

 

[Stumper]

In the interest of the trees switch to strap on steps. Climb with the belt on and rope around the tree. (yes you have to mess with it moving the rope at every step but if you slip it could save your life). You can (should?) replace your 'hook' thing with a locking carabiner and a Distel hitch and a brass swivel snap for a slack tender. The best way to figure out how would be to do a search on this site for those terms. you may have questions-feel free to ask-but it will be easier to explain if you do some reading and see some of the posted pictures.
Best wishes

 

[murphy4trees]

Hey Rocky,
You don't piss me off.... It's just the hacks that don't like you calling a spade a spade... I half-smile everytime you go on a little rant... I AM either getting used to your atttitude or its been improving quite a bit lately.... So you GO..... AS should give you some official recognition as our Cyber-bouncer... I personally AM thankful and you might save a life or two alon the way... we'll never know for sure.

 

[ORclimber]

How about something a little more user friendly. http://futureforestry.com/3rd level/Product Pages/ascender.html

 

[NeTree]

Frankly, I wouldn't trust a $3 rope with MY life. I presume you're looking at stuff rated for your body weight. But remember... in a fall, your rope is subjected to MANY TIMES your own weight. That's why arborist climbing lined are rated in excess of 5000 pounds. Unless it's JPS... his (and mine) have to be higher.

 

[rbtree]

Errrr, Rocky:.....
http://futureforestry.com/2nd level/order/price_list.html

 

[geofore]

deer hunt

Short lengths of 2x4 ~24" two holes drilled in each end. A few lenghts of 6mm rope, thread the rope through the holes on one end of the 2x4 so the ends are the same length. Put the rope around the tree and thread the ends through the other end of the 2x4 pull tight and tie a knot to hold the 2x4 against the tree, the first rung in your ladder. Repeat until the ladder reaches the height you want securing yourself in place as you accend with your linemans equipment. When you're done hunting cut the ropes on the 2x4's with your penknife or untie the ropes as you climb down. You don't mark up the tree or leave holes in it. You cut the ropes if you don't wish to save them for next year or don't want the liability of someone else getting hurt climbing your laddder. It saves the tree some injury, no steel in the tree for a timber cutter to hit 40 years down the road after the tree has grown over the spikes you left in it. I've seen guys use a heavy clothes line for rope to do this as there are four points to pick up the load. I'd recommend the 6mm arbo stuff, it is safer. It carries easily in a back pack, simple to set up and take down and does not harm the tree.
You can always learn to footlock.

 

[AviD]

Some interesting responses.

First, I am not trying to stir the pot...this is how myself and many other hunters climb trees.

In regards to safety, I am surprised at some of the answers...

1) Leave the step in the tree (for the sake of the tree). How about the sake of my life and safety when climbing? Leaving them in the tree, as the tree grows/expands will stress the step and potentially damage the step. As such when I climb it sometime in the future, there is a chance it could break due to that stress and I go tumbling

2) http://futureforestry.com/3rd lev...s/ascender.html
LOL @ the pricelist
Keep in mind I have dozens of treestand locations, am I going to buy that for each one? Haul that in and out? Perhaps you were kidding around

3) Strap around steps are probably one of the most dangerous steps there are to use...and probably responsible for many climbing accidents for deer hunters. (unless you guys use another kind of strap around step than is offered in hunting catalogs).

Again, not stirring the pot, but obviously we have very different perceptions. Mine is geared towards my own well being and safety, whereas yours (and perhaps understandably so due to experience and profession) is geared towards the "safety/well-being" of the tree and compromising personal safety (aka willing to fall with an alternate solution) and depend on your climbing gear to compensate.

At least that's how I'm perceiving it, could very well be off. Regardless, I do appreciate the feedback and suggestions. Not trying to cause any riffles here, I think this thread has become pretty interesting and informative.

One other thing about the $3 rope...keep in mind it is only a 6 foot section....and the rope is rated well over my weight range...rougly in the area you are recommending. Although I've recently learned they do not recommend rock climbing rope, that is what it is. So far, the rope has worked very well and hasn't show any signs of wear after much use.

I'll begin to do some research on a "carabiner and a Distel hitch and a brass swivel snap for a slack tender" suggested below as well. Perhaps that will be a good alternative.

Thanks again for the help and stimulating conversation!

 

[Frans]

Avid
You mentioned having a lineman's climbing belt.
These belts come with large "D" rings located at your hips.
All you need to buy is a wire core flip line. this is attached to your saddle with a knot. I call this a "cats paw" knot but i've heard it called other names as well.
This knot is adjustable so you can take up slack or let slack out. It is easy, minimal equipment to carry in and out, one piece of gear, and light if you buy a 1/2" cable core flip line.
As for entering the tree here you have another whole can of worms.
Basiclly you are asking this forum on advice to make the process easier. I did not read in your posts that you were/are unwilling to learn new tricks for entering the tree.

TO THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD
SHAME ON YOU!

Here is a guy asking for advice and your pompus a$$ are too caught up with your primadonna selves to give a guy some good advice.
Well Avid, here is some advice. I hope it makes your hunting easier and safer and this advice will also benifit the tree which is what I am all about.
To enter a tree without damaging it and to make it fairly painless to you is a tall order.
You have experiance in "walking" up trees. That is to say you climb up using steps attaached or spikes or whatever. The methods I advise (and others shuould as well) all use rope climbing.
That means using a rope as the main support to get up in the tree.
Throw a rope over a branch and pull your self up it.
We arborists use all kinds of stuff to help us in this. for example: ascenders, false crotches, decenders, etc, etc.
It is not easy but if not harming the tree is your goal than the motivation is there.
To begin why dont you buy a climbing rope. Learn to tie a climbing knot (blakes is good) and learn to body thrust.
So here is your equipment list.
1. steel core flip line 10'
2. 1/2" climbing rope 60'-120' (longer is heavier)
3. Cambium saver. Leather is good and easy to set up check out www.newtribe.com for ideas.
Thats it for equipment! after the money settles you will be out maybe 200. $
Oh and by the way
CLIMBING IS DANGEROUS AND SHOULD NEVER BE DONE WITHOUT PROPER, PROFESSIONAL INSTRUCTION.
and never by oneself
Frans

 

[murphy4trees]

One question could be how far up a tree do you need to ascend... or how high are your tree stands?
There's a little more to it than just throwing a rope over the lowest limb... maybe next time you see a tree "climbing" crew at work you could stop and watch and even ask a few questions if you get the chance.
There's a lot you can learn here and on the web and it'll be easier to understand if you've seen it in action..

 

[AviD]

Fran, thanks for the reply.

What you've described sounds ideal in terms of extending off the lineman's belt. I have been researching quite a bit and thinking about alternatives...your's sounds like the best of all worlds. I'll take a look at that for sure!

Now...in regards to my previous post...I thought quite a bit on my way to work and here at work regarding alternative methods to climbing trees.

Some considerations when climbing during hunting are:

1) I WILL definitely be alone when climbing

2) It will be dark when climbing, i.e. 4:00AM

3) There are various temperature ranges you hunt in, therefore your clothing (bulk) will vary greatly.

4) Due to all day vigils, the amount of equipment you bring with you varies greatly, and must be considered. Perhaps using a pulley system to get gear up to the stand would be a good approach

5) I've read about using such means you described to climb a tree, but what if you don't have a large branch to secure to? Do you just tie around the tree where you want to place the stand?

6) Not all hunters (just as not all people) treat others or their equipment with due respect. As such, I have to consider "tampering" with anything I leave behind. i.e. someone may cut my rope to prevent me from climbing (yes there are some evil SOBs out there). How would I manage setting up a new rope at 4:00AM?

7) I will not be climbing with clothing/footwear suited for climbing with the methods suggested. I will be wearing quite bulky and heavy boots, which is a challenge in itself.

8) There are MANY stand locations, of which are set up well prior to actually hunting them...and will ALL require the same equipment/setup. So, cost becomes a factor. Treesteps are fairly inexpensive and if stolen can be replaced. On the other hand, if I start putting out expensive climbing gear, chances are that it WILL be stolen and very expensive to replace.


Not to mention, this is all new to me. Certainly all things I could learn, but also adds to the risk factor considering I am alone. Plus, I am still trying to determine the best way to achieve all the things I can do now (from a safe climbing perspective and from a hunting perspective) with an alternative method.

Fortunately I have great folks such as yourselves that are quite knowledgeable on the subject of tree climbing, hence why I came here originally.

Nevertheless, currently with a lineman's belt, I can climb steps secured to the tree and maintaining 3 points of contact at all times during climbing...in case I do fall I have reasonable security (either already holding onto something and/or the belt). It is arguable whether it is better to rely on the steps as more security when climbing, or more things that can wrong when climbing.

In additional, all that is mentioned above is JUST related to climbing with SOME hunting considerations involved. There is alot more to consider when hunting...paramount is Scent and Noise Factors...but SAFETY is ALWAYS first.

The methods I use are common practice between hunters, and while someone did mention earlier many hunters fall each year...there are many factors that contribute to this.

Some don't use safety belts at all, some don't check their equipment thoroughly, some fall asleep on stand, etc etc.

Anyway, any additional information and/or recommendations on alternative, practical methods to achieve my safe climbing needs with the above considerations would be greatly appreciated.

I realize I may have opened a can of worms in several fronts (hunting and tree damage via tree steps). I do not want to argue ethics on hunting here, but am very willing and open to new approaches in climbing trees...of which all of your experience is a great value.

Thanks again and hope to hear from you guys some more!

 

[AviD]

murphy4trees:

Good question.

Treestand height varies. I tend to hunt somewhat high compared to most hunters (but not very high for most of you climbers).

I will set a stand anywhere between 15 and 45 feet, with an average of 25-30 feet.

Also keep in mind, there is often not a branch on a given tree that is acceptable (IMO) for a safe tie. Unless I'm tying to a big oak, I would be leary. Alot of the trees hunted are relatively small in diameter (12-20"), whereas others (few) are much larger.

Treestand placement is a complex process and often times you don't have much to choose from in the area you want to place a stand. Have to go with what you can get, which is another reason treesteps are a benefit...being so versatile.

 

[NeTree]

Avid,
the problem with "rock climbing" rope is that it doesn't lend itself very well to knot-tying, and more importantly, to hitches.

Glad you understand the importance of over-rated lines and equipment. You may never need fall protection, but it's always good to know it's there if gravity bites.

 

[AviD]

Well said and very much understood. I wouldn't try anything unless I was confident and knowledgeable in what I was doing.

Everything I've ever done in hunting has been tested at ground level well before it was ever done up in a tree.

I am not really trying to learn how to climb from this website, I completely understand that is best learned from instruction (like most expertises). What I was originally looking for was what I already have, but want another of...just can't find it.

This thread has since turned into an interesting one with many issues discussed. Fortunately I have gained enough info regarding my original question as well as quite a bit more info on climbing, techniques, equipment, etc.

I definitely like the ideas mentioned and feel it may be worth learning how to do from a professional, experienced climber. But before such time, I'd like to learn as much as I can so I am at least somewhat primed and knowledgeable before getting "trained/taught" on how to climb with the methodologies suggested on here.

Thanks again for all the info...definitely an interesting discussion and learning experience!

 

[NickfromWI]

Originally posted by netree
Avid,
the problem with "rock climbing" rope is that it doesn't lend itself very well to knot-tying, and more importantly, to hitches.

I know this is off the topic, but could you expand on this. I disagree.

love
nick