Alternative to sharpening your chain

[SawTroll]

ALOT!! On 30 grand I'll pull 15 grand in profit. Sounds outragous doesn't it. Way I see it a 25.00 chain will cut a cord of wood. A cord of wood around here goes for 250.00. A 25.00 chain will saw up a small tree that they charge a grand to do. So do I feel bad, not at all...

That chain surely isn't the only cost of making that cord of wood ready to sell - your logic is faulty ol' friend.....:msp_ohmy:

 

[SawTroll]

Really. I know of no one that files a brand new chain or checks the rakers. Ole feller I've been selling and putting on new chains for over 20 years. In my 20 plus years I've never had one person ask me to touch it up with a file or check the rakers. They, like me, assume since its new its probably already sharp and the rakers are right. I've yet to find a new dull chain in a Stihl box or one with the rakers outta wack. Let me tell ya what I have heard over and over, "nothing cuts like a new one". I hear that all the time.

I know there are folks than can hand file a chain and it cuts great, better than new, I've yet to see it, possible I guess but to actually see it, never have. I've heard it said but never seen it. Sadly for every one person that can file good there are a 100 who can't. Few human hands can hold the angles like a machine can. I got many customers who hand file their chains a few times and then bring them back to get the angles striaghtened out with the grinder. That goes on all the time. The human hand just isn't that steady or accurate, the machine is.

I think this filing thing is more self satisfaction that its cutting again than how well its really cutting. It feels good to be sawing, chain goes dull, touch it up and its cutting pretty good again. Feels good yes. Cutting better than it was new, I doubt it. If it is awesome, I know my new chain is cutting like what, ya got it baby, a new one, cheers!!!!!!!!

Yes, really!

It would be convenient if it was the way you say, but sadly it isn't that simple.

New chain isn't perfect, and the edges often need to be "cleaned up" with a light stroke or two (more on Carlton chain), and the rakers surpricingly often are too high. Even when they are OK (the rakers), you don't really know that before you have checked....

However, I agree with you that most people (don't know if it is 75%, 90%, 95% or 99% though) don't know how to file a chain properly, and never will get them as good as new.

In addition to this, the factorey choise of angles and raker depth may not be what suits the cutting conditions at hand best....

 

[closetoreality]

iv never had an issue with a tried and trued file shoved in a plastic handle, and 3 minutes of time. of course this is out in the woods when i was under the gun.

being a greenhorn is so much fun

 

[SawTroll]

Manufacturers have to choose a default or compromise set of angles to please a variety of customers. Has to survive shipping and handling. It makes sense that a few, skilled licks of a file could put a slightly finer edge on a cutter, or change it slightly to better fit the user's taste.

What Zombiechopper is referring to could be a result of a larger gullet after a few sharpening, increasing chip carrying capacity, and a lighter cut mass. Moving closer to a race chain!

Philbert

:agree2:

 

[Fish]

Got one, called my wallet.

I saw one of those auto machines at the Stihl factory, only $19,000.00 I can buy alot of chains for that. Would be great to have at the shop though, then customers could sharpen their own chain and hand me $8.50 going out the door, user fee,hehe

I love the guy that invented that machine, but it is not quite as effortless as they say
however.

 

[woodsroad]

...How do you sleep at night knowing your screwing costumers out of a perfectly good chain and selling them a new one because the profit is higher? It's no wonder why I do my own!...

This is where you have left the road and headed into the weeds, son.

The man owns a business, not a public service. He stays in business by providing customers what they need, when they need it, at a price that his customers consider to be fair. His customers have choices. They can buy a new chain, or he will sharpen the old one (if he considers it feasible to do so). His customers can also choose not to do business with him at all.

His customers, for the most part, are not idiots. They have free will. They can make critical decisions. Many of of his customers run businesses of their own. Simply because they choose to conduct themselves in a manner that is different from your own behavior does not mean that they have been cheated, lied to or scr*wed.

Slow down, step back, look in the mirror, and think about it a bit before you cast stones.

 

[GrassGuerilla]

Really? One use?

I generally do not post unless I've read the whole thread, but this one got me so worked up. (No idea why). I'm sure it's all been covered already but... When you gas up, just one or two smooth even strokes per cutter. The right file size with a guide. Takes less time than changing and retensioning.

Four cords without filing? What's your bar look like? Is your saw PACKED with dust after a day cutting?

A buddy of mine used to do the same thing. We were cutting together a couple years back, both using 42cc Poulans. He started with a new chain, I was running an old one. Initially he was throwing huge chips, moving right along. An hour in, the chips were dust. By lunch he was AMAZED how much more I'd cut. He was leaning on it to try to keep pace. Just smoked his bar.

Despite the fact that I took frequent short touch up and top off breaks, I way out cut him. At lunch time, I showed him how to do it.

Final word: if you don't think you have time to file, you should try it. I almost guarantee your wasting time and money (same thing after all).

 

[ancy]

This is where you have left the road and headed into the weeds, son.

The man owns a business, not a public service. He stays in business by providing customers what they need, when they need it, at a price that his customers consider to be fair. His customers have choices. They can buy a new chain, or he will sharpen the old one (if he considers it feasible to do so). His customers can also choose not to do business with him at all.

His customers, for the most part, are not idiots. They have free will. They can make critical decisions. Many of of his customers run businesses of their own. Simply because they choose to conduct themselves in a manner that is different from your own behavior does not mean that they have been cheated, lied to or scr*wed.

Slow down, step back, look in the mirror, and think about it a bit before you cast stones.

I'm not standing in any weeds or blind either. I feel fine with what I posted as he said in post #117 that his costumers needs(a chain that needs sharpened) were a pain in his a$$ and there is more porfit in selling new chain. I also don't throw stones, I just see it how it is, sorry!

 

[Chris-PA]

The throwaway society knows the price of everything and the value of little, nor the cost of our waste.

Once they would burn down an old shed to recover the nails. Now cheap energy and easy credit have distorted things to the point where it seems to make sense to throw away a steel cutting chain rather than spending a few minutes sharpening it. This is very temporary.

A man isn't really qualified to use a tool if he doesn't know how to maintain it.

 

[arborealbuffoon]

The throwaway society knows the price of everything and the value of little, nor the cost of our waste.

Once they would burn down an old shed to recover the nails. Now cheap energy and easy credit have distorted things to the point where it seems to make sense to throw away a steel cutting chain rather than spending a few minutes sharpening it. This is very temporary.

A man isn't really qualified to use a tool if he doesn't know how to maintain it.

Couldn't have said it better myself. And, it would have taken six paragraphs for me to try......

rep sent!

smak!@#

 

[sunfish]

At one time I believed everybody that owned and used a chainsaw knew how to sharpen with a file.

Since being on the site for awhile, I can see this isn't the case. Not even close...

 

[edisto]

Sems like a how to sharpen chains thread is in order

You can find them in the chainsaw FAQ thread!



...if you can find the chainsaw FAQ thread...

 

[Metals406]

I remember when I was 12 years old and had a hard time filing a chain. . . Then I turned 13 and it wasn't a problem anymore.

Here's the long of the short guys -- if you want to get real good at sharpening chain, you're going to have to sharpen yards of it. No joke, you just can't osmosis this crap.

Just like tennis, football, baseball, etc. -- to get good with a file, it's going to take lots of time and money.

For me, it's been worth the journey. My friends and family can't believe how I can make a chain cut, and they're always wanting me to file for them.

So, if you want to have someone else grind or file your chain, great! Or if you want to throw them out after they dull once, great!

But don't fool yourselves into thinking out of the box chain is sharp, or that it can't be beat with a hand filing (measure out of the box with calipers for Christ's sake). That just shows your ignorance of the topic, and your lack of first hand knowledge when it comes to defining 'sharpness'.

 

[greendohn]

Several years ago, there was a guy around here, he's still in business, who runs a tree service. He used brand new Stihl chains 1 time and gave 'em all to an old retired climber. The old climber would service the chains and re-sell 'em for 8 bucks apiece!! I had bought several from him. The old climber is no longer of this earth, I don't know if this kid still practices the "disposable chain" routine any more. Was a helluva deal, nonetheless.
I've never gotten the knack for hand filing, always use my old Foley Belsaw bench grinder. It aint the friendliest sharpener to use but it'll sure sharpen a chain if I take my time and pay attention to what I'm doing. I have been trying the "touch up" while fueling a little this winter..with mixxed results. :bang: I've always kept several sharpened chains in the truck and just swapped 'em out when dull. Old habits can be hard to break!

Oh yeah,,'Farmerdoug, I think yer nuts, but, I aint judgin' ya'! each to his own.

 

[woodsroad]

The throwaway society knows the price of everything and the value of little, nor the cost of our waste.

Once they would burn down an old shed to recover the nails. Now cheap energy and easy credit have distorted things to the point where it seems to make sense to throw away a steel cutting chain rather than spending a few minutes sharpening it. This is very temporary.

A man isn't really qualified to use a tool if he doesn't know how to maintain it.

There are two different arguments being made on this thread. One is an emotional argument ("Hey, that's just wrong!") and the other is economic. What makes economic sense doesn't always make emotional sense, and visa-verse. I'll ignore the emotional argument.

The root question is: How much money is generated by a given saw chain over the course of it's usable life?

The economic argument pivots on the cost of labor. At a certain point, it is economically more advantageous to replace rather than repair. We all know that. Now, at what point this happens with a saw chain is another question. It's a bit complex. The business owner wants to keep the cost per cut as low as possible. So you have to weigh the material costs against the labor costs. I can see hiring low-wage workers who can swing a saw, but not sharpen the chain. Or having high wage union workers who can touch up a chain just perfectly, but take a half-hour @ $35/per to do it. Or the sole proprietor who doesn't want to pay himself his average hourly to sharpen chain. But let's say your shop will sharpen a 20" loop for $8.50. New Oregon chain is $12.99 (Bailey's has a sale right now). One of your employees has to take the chains to the shop and pick them up. Your workers have to keep the sharp and dull chains separated. Simple, yes, but so are a lot of employees.

Also keep in mind, those dull, but nearly new chains represent a business opportunity for someone else. So before you declare swapping out chains to be a a waste, you have to look at the economics. How much money is generated by a given chain over it's lifetime? Buying new chain makes money for the chain manufacturer, that means jobs. Makes money for the seller, that means jobs. Might save money for the user, under certain circumstances. May create a business opportunity for someone to sharpen and resell those almost-new chains. Would save money for the person buying a good used chain at a reduced price.

Hey, it's not how I do things, but it can make perfect sense.

If you are a homeowner saw user, none of this applies and you should learn to file your chains. But, again, it's your choice.

 

[edisto]

I'm not standing in any weeds or blind either. I feel fine with what I posted as he said in post #117 that his costumers needs(a chain that needs sharpened) were a pain in his a$$ and there is more porfit in selling new chain. I also don't throw stones, I just see it how it is, sorry!

Show me a business where certain customer needs aren't a pain in the ass.

Tommy is straightforward...no wait...blunt. Some people have a problem with that because they have insecurity issues. I'll admit that he rubbed me the wrong way when I first came to the site, but if you shut up and listen, you'll find out that he (apart from brand choice) is always on the money.

I've dealt with him, and if I had the choice, I'd deal only with him.

He doesn't take crap, and you will never get one over on him. If you try it, you'd best leave your wallet at home. He doesn't charge extra for the lesson, but it will cost you.

On the other hand, if you shut up and listen, you'll save money in the long run, learn a little something, and keep coming back.

 

[Fish]

In a little over 5 years cutting and I can tell you like many have a half way gone FILED chain will smoke some hack on a grinder or even the factory job. Case in point here is a Stihl shop ground chain what I bet will hold an edge for a little over 1 cut!

If you can't see it has a nice purple color to it. Put your new chains and grinder away and learn something!

Sent from my XT881

I agree that most folks using a grinder, do not do good work. But to take one guy's bad work, and extrapolate that everyone that uses a grinder does the same quality work as your one example.

The other side of the coin, most guys that use a file do a very poor job as well, but will brag about their ability to no end.

A properly sharpened chain can cut with the same speed and efficiency throughout it's life, even get better towards the end. Why do you think
guys making racing chain grind 90% of the metal off of a brand new chain?

And your equating 5 years of cutting firewood toward THall's 20 plus years experience of being a chainsaw tech is kind of silly.

And a few of your remarks I would take as an insult, but Tommy doesn't need any backup from me.

 

[sunfish]

Show me a business where certain customer needs aren't a pain in the ass.

Tommy is straightforward...no wait...blunt. Some people have a problem with that because they have insecurity issues. I'll admit that he rubbed me the wrong way when I first came to the site, but if you shut up and listen, you'll find out that he (apart from brand choice) is always on the money.

I've dealt with him, and if I had the choice, I'd deal only with him.

He doesn't take crap, and you will never get one over on him. If you try it, you'd best leave your wallet at home. He doesn't charge extra for the lesson, but it will cost you.

On the other hand, if you shut up and listen, you'll save money in the long run, learn a little something, and keep coming back.

Good post! But I love the part in bold! :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[ancy]

Okay I will leave this to the pros and try to learn something

 

[Hedgerow]

Good post! But I love the part in bold! :hmm3grin2orange:

AMEN brother Don!!!
Now...
Where did I put that Tom T. Hall cd???
:msp_confused: