America's Toughest Jobs

[Zackman1801]

ive actually heard people say that they thought maine was a part of canada before. anything is possible.

 

[Humptulips]

well I don't know for sure if it is...but i think they got too big and have too much overhead to roll with the lean times...basically I could see them either selling off some unprofitable divisions or just going the way timberwest did and contracting out all phases of logging...or i could be wrong...just my gut feeling... guilty of thread hijaking....I don't even think they do any single stem down in the states....couple guys I knew gave a demo in washington state and I think all the US loggers thought it was kinda loony...

Ok, I'll admit my ignorance. What is single stemming and windfirming?

 

[clearance]

Windfirming-pruning and topping trees on the edge of clearcuts so they don't blow down

Single stem-limbing the tree while it is still standing and topping it at a certain height. The tree is later cut most of the way through, the a helicopter with a grapple snaps it off and takes it away.

 

[Humptulips]

Windfirming-pruning and topping trees on the edge of clearcuts so they don't blow down

Single stem-limbing the tree while it is still standing and topping it at a certain height. The tree is later cut most of the way through, the a helicopter with a grapple snaps it off and takes it away.

Sounds like foolishness. Looney is about right.

The only thing that would explain it is government contract.

 

[Bushler]

Hump, I have to agree. It seems like govt. regs. are designed to make resource production as complicated and dangerous as they can.

Clear cut and yarder log is the best way to harvest timber. Clear cuts and replanting timber is the best method to grow healthy trees.

So we don't do that anymore. Now its all about inefficiency and waste, per the goal of the GreenPeople.

I feel old. Our economy is in the toilet, we import everything and export our money.

 

[clearance]

Sounds like foolishness. Looney is about right.

The only thing that would explain it is government contract.

Single stem logging is a lot cheaper because you don't have to build roads, and you can take only what you want. The government didn't invent this, most gov't guys can barely climb out of bed, never mind climb trees.

I know guys that have done it, it is not crazy, it takes a good climber with balls, thats all.

I do agree with Bushler, clearcut is best, but this method makes sense, because clearcuts are still allowed here. But when you clearcut you have to take all the wood, even the hemlock. With single stem they just pick out the money trees, like cedar.

 

[Bushler]

Clearence, you say its cheaper because you don't have to build roads, and I can see the value saved in that..but aren't you in effect high grading out the high value trees and leaving the rest to be logged conventionaly later? Isn't that a lost leader sort of harvest, going back in?

Not being argumentative here, just trying to understand the perspective.

Another consideration is the value of the road. Roads are a definite plus for timber management, in spite of what the GreenPeople think. Reforestation, rodent control, fire suppresssion, etc.

I like to use the timber harvest to finance the road extensions, and road improvements.

 

[Gologit]

Single stem logging is a lot cheaper because you don't have to build roads, and you can take only what you want. The government didn't invent this, most gov't guys can barely climb out of bed, never mind climb trees.

I know guys that have done it, it is not crazy, it takes a good climber with balls, thats all.

I do agree with Bushler, clearcut is best, but this method makes sense, because clearcuts are still allowed here. But when you clearcut you have to take all the wood, even the hemlock. With single stem they just pick out the money trees, like cedar.

Any idea how this costs out? I was wondering how it stacks up against cable yarding or Cat logging as in cost per BF. Even if you're cherry-picking the best timber it still sounds like an expensive way to log. Do you get enough volume to make it worth it ?

And yeah, like a lot of us in the 48, I think it's a goofy idea. I'd sure like to watch it done though, and my hat's off to those doing it.

 

[slowp]

Single stem logging is a lot cheaper because you don't have to build roads, and you can take only what you want. The government didn't invent this, most gov't guys can barely climb out of bed, never mind climb trees.

There you go, stereotyping us. I have climbed a couple of trees at a much younger age. Wouldn't do it now, well, maybe try and really look stupid? Yes, sometimes I have a hard time getting out of bed, when having to deal with the bureaucracy of which I am the bottom of. Don't think about that last part too much please.
An example? Somebody in the main office didn't do much needed input because I didn't use a particular form. I merely wrote it out on an e-mail. So, it sat there for 6 weeks until I called to make sure what I wanted was taken care of. Such is life, that's why I have taken up the saw.
Wonderful anger workout tool--a saw.

 

[Gologit]

Hey, Slowp.

There you go, stereotyping us. I have climbed a couple of trees at a much younger age. Wouldn't do it now, well, maybe try and really look stupid? Yes, sometimes I have a hard time getting out of bed, when having to deal with the bureaucracy of which I am the bottom of. Don't think about that last part too much please.
An example? Somebody in the main office didn't do much needed input because I didn't use a particular form. I merely wrote it out on an e-mail. So, it sat there for 6 weeks until I called to make sure what I wanted was taken care of. Such is life, that's why I have taken up the saw.
Wonderful anger workout tool--a saw.

You might work for the Fed but all of us know that in your heart and soul you're still a gypo logger. When the last of your ilk retire or get tired of the crap and move on there'll be nothing but bunny fondlers, tree huggers, recreationalists, the people that change the toilet paper in the campground restrooms, and 'ologists that never leave the office. If I gotta deal with Feds , and I don't unless I have to, I'd much rather deal with somebody like you.

 

[ak4195]

you would have to shanghi me to get me on that tub. No offense about the boat buddy but that's what it looks like to me. A little tiny boat in a bathtub and God is splashing around in there. Sorry for the losses, its one hell of a tally. The Dan abides although he needs to pack the dramamine and I am starting to feel queasy just looking at the pic. I am gonna stick to showers for awhile.[/QUOTE

Running with the stabilizers out and probably either following or slightly quarting on the stern.No way to tell the size of the boat obviously,but to a certain point and depending on the conditions that less of an issue.More importantly is the hull shape, soundness/way its loaded,and of course smarts.
I used to know a guy named Bince who lived in Gustavus,owned a very small 38ft wood dble ender.He would single hand it across the gulf,straight to Dutch Harbor,a good week @ 5-7 knots 24/7.He stayed awake by falling head first into his radar overhead,which would give him a knot on his forehead.
He spent the summer fishing Halibut all my himself,and did expecptionally well.
The risk factor is off the chart,any number of ways to get pulled/fall/washed overboard by yourself,never mind running into reefs/islands or getting run over.
He'd come back to town looking like a Zombie after 3 or 5 days of fishing/running with very little sleep.
I was a Hook n Line fisherman for 23 yrs,the first 10yrs i fished about 10 months out of the year,which meant alot of wintertime exposure.
Winter fishing is an awesome experience,makes you feel alive,but I definitely dont miss it,but Im glad I was there.
More men(and women) were lost by bad decisions/misguided bravado than any other reason or circumstances.Its been that way since man first hopped into a skin boat.
Things are far better now with mandatory CG safety regs and better electronics,especially GPS,the old Loran A and C signals were prone to large errors at times.
If they want to film a REAL extreme job,they should do an eppisode with the Coast Guard Helo group out of Kodiak or Sitka in the winter time.
Alaskan Coast Guard Helo Rescue is the stuff of legends doing the impossible with very little notice,hands down

ak4195

 

[clearance]

Clearence, you say its cheaper because you don't have to build roads, and I can see the value saved in that..but aren't you in effect high grading out the high value trees and leaving the rest to be logged conventionaly later? Isn't that a lost leader sort of harvest, going back in?

Not being argumentative here, just trying to understand the perspective.

Another consideration is the value of the road. Roads are a definite plus for timber management, in spite of what the GreenPeople think. Reforestation, rodent control, fire suppresssion, etc.

I like to use the timber harvest to finance the road extensions, and road improvements.

First of all, sorry to slowp, I know what you do, you have my respect.

Yes, single stem is high grading, no doubt. But the bush still looks good to the treehuggers, you cannot see what is gone unless you hike up there.

Yes, I like logging roads and they are good for many things, here though, they are not left and maintained, all spurs and even some mainlines are taken out. I mean destroyed on purpose. They take out the culverts first, then they take out the bridges. Spurs are taken right out, they use big excavators with twist-a-wrist buckets.

I think the clearcut it all method is best for the coast, but many here do not, and thier power in increasing.

 

[Bushler]

AK4195, you have a good eye. The boat in the pic is not mine, I took that pic out the back door of my boat, (Nancy Jean)...I was leading the other boat, (Jeffery J.), into the channel at Chetco River, OR. The Jeff is 45' double chine Monk steel. Last I heard the Jeffery J. was in Bellingham WA.

My boat is slightly shorter, at 41', single chine Monk, aluminum. I fished alone most of my career, hiring crew for Dungeness crab fishing season. I crabbed that little boat from CA to AK. Spent one season fishing out of Cordova, AK

Most summers I troll fish salmon and tuna alone. When asked what I'd do if I fell overboard I'd tell people. "swim for the bottom".

The prize: My crew smiling big.

 

[Bushler]

I confess a weakness toward sea stories and pics. Sorry.

 

[Humptulips]

First of all, sorry to slowp, I know what you do, you have my respect.

Yes, single stem is high grading, no doubt. But the bush still looks good to the treehuggers, you cannot see what is gone unless you hike up there.

Yes, I like logging roads and they are good for many things, here though, they are not left and maintained, all spurs and even some mainlines are taken out. I mean destroyed on purpose. They take out the culverts first, then they take out the bridges. Spurs are taken right out, they use big excavators with twist-a-wrist buckets.

I think the clearcut it all method is best for the coast, but many here do not, and thier power in increasing.

Sounds like you're up against the same sort of bureaucracy I see down here on the government lands. Difference might be is the harvest of a tree now seems almost sacreligious around here.
We seem to be forced to do some strange things at times to keep logging. We have the same sort of road decommissioning going on here. Turning it into a park, multiple use be damned.
No disrespect towards the loggers doing the work but it still sounds looney.

 

[Bushler]

The point the GreenPeople are missing is, its not the trees that are sacred, its the grow site, the LAND that is sacred. The trees are just a crop. An overage crop (oldgrowth) is a waste of the grow site. Nurture the land, crop the timber!

Wanna see a pic I took when we were Moose fishing in Controller Bay, AK?

 

[RandyMac]

Bushler, you up in Brookings? My Bro lives on the bluff across the Chetco from the Coast Guard base, great view from up there. I'm just down the coast in CC.
Local crab fishermen are tough, it's a rare year when a boat doesn't come up missing, the worse time of year to be on the ocean.
We had an old 41 foot double ender, it sat low and had next to nothing for freeboard, kinda like a surfaced submarine in rough water, being knee deep in water was normal.

 

[Bushler]

Randy, I fished crab out of Brookings since 1974. Used CC as our bail out harbor when the Chetco bar was closed.

Summers I'd fish out of my home port, Gold Beach. Brother (F/V Early Times) and I tried fishing crab out of Gold Beach for two years and gave it up...the Rogue River bar was just to swill for safety.

The Dungeness in the boat pic came from Pelican Bay.

 

[RandyMac]

CC is sometimes is the only harbor open between Puget Sound and San Francisco. I hated running the bar at Humboldt, even on a good day you stood the chance of pitching the prop outta the water.

Our old boat was the F/V Northman, it ended it's life on the rocks at Noyo.

 

[forestryworks]

bump for anyone who wants to watch it

it's tonight at 8/7c on NBC

and it features SawTroll's favorite saw - the 441 :greenchainsaw: