Any "safe" starting fluid for a saw?
- Thread starter Joseph Acquisto
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
I love that. Look at their website where it says....
Nulon "Start Ya Bastard" Instant Engine Starter (SYB) promotes easy starting of all diesel and petrol engines (both two-stroke and four-stroke). In searching for a name for this product, we could not get away from the three words most commonly used to describe a difficult-to-start engine "Start Ya Bastard". We trust you will not be offended.
That is SO TRUE I want some but I have a feeling getting it from your land to mine would cost a fortune.
ValleyForge
Liberty Farms
Earth raping carbon dioxide…oh the horror….lol
Gotta keep pumping it out there so we can sell some carbon credits...............................
I did. Take a look
BrettS
ArboristSite Operative
Chainsaws take lubricating oil in the fuel so what makes you think glow fuel doesn't?.For your reading
Glow Model Airplane Fuel
As it's name implies, glow fuel requires a glow plug for ignition.
Glow fuel has three main ingredients-
Methanol is the primary combustible used in rc airplane fuel. Nitro is added to increasepower. It doe this by increasing the oxygen content in the fuel mix. More nitro results in more power, up to a point. The higher the nitro content the more sensitive, to adjustment the glow engine's carburetor becomes.
- Methanol (Alcohol)
- Lubricating oil.
- Nitromethane (Nitro)
For typical sport flying, glow fuels containing from 5 percent to 30 percent nitro produces a good compromise between power and ease of carburetor adjustment. The higher nitro content fuels are more expensive and tend to lower glow plug life.
Please follow the engine manufacturer's recommendations regarding the fuel mix that should be used in your engine. I rarely exceed 15 percent nitro content and find this to be a good balance.
Seems to me the #2 ingrediant is lubricating oil. Is there any lubricating oil is standard ether based starting fluid?
skids-stihls
ArboristSite Lurker
Hi arb team, I’m new to joining the site but not new to reading here or to saws, so I’ll just share an experience or 2 on this situation and put my flame suit on for any controversy. 
sorry moderators.
For the less attention span folks. The moral or point is in the last couple of paragraphs. Sorry to the rest that like the full story. But it gives background.
I have 2 generations of motor mechanics ahead of me on one side of the family and 1 generation of forestry in front on the other side.
I’ve worked on Petrol, diesel, 4strokes and 2strokes in my time, not as a qualified trade, but because they were the engines needed to keep the day productive.
Mostly water drilling rigs and chainsaws, (how’s that for opposite) but also needed a car or Ute to get there and I don’t like paying others for mechanical. So I’ve had a crack at most things, but no PHD or UNIT STANDARDS, or whichever the readers/members have at home.
I’m not a huge fan of ether, I think a car can be cranked to check spark and a chainsaw can be drilled over to check for it too, I’ve also seen big diesels that need a sniff in the winter, and those that become addicted to it and end up needing it the next summer.
This is anywhere from a 6cylinder truck to a V12 twin turbo twin supercharged Detroit.
I’ve also heard the dreaded knock after the offsider puts too much ether in too early.
For starter motor engines, crank speed slows in winter and can be mistaken for other issues when all you needed was new batteries, or starter motor.
Then some get hooked on the ether even once the boss finally agrees to new batteries. Other times problem is solved with more crank speed.
I’ve also owned one of the Detroit V6 supercharged diesels, which I couldn’t get moving after blocked fuel filters were replaced, I even had to call a mechanic, I wasn’t happy, but ether got her going and she wasn’t addicted afterwards.
Background over, more to the point. My father, well experienced in forestry and general firefighters tools since he left school, had been starting his Stihl 026 with just a “sniff” of ether, for at least the last 2 years, maybe 3 years.
I finally talked him into the new carb that I found cheap on Trademe.
While waiting for delivery I took his saw apart and took to local Petrol station to blow it out ready for the carb install. (Our own compressor has sand in its @&$# right now) when dissembling before the journey I noticed his throttle position on full and half choke, of course this is more obvious on this model as the choke is in the air filter which was removed. (Anytime I take an air filter cover off, I put them on full choke first, for obvious debris that can move around)
When I saw the 026 throttle basically closed at full and half choke, I new that something wasn’t quite right. firstly only because my 3 girls couldn’t rev that high on half choke start if the throttle butterfly was that closed. So I pulled all my air filters off, all MS’s 270, 660 and 880, sure enough, I could see some throat on the throttle when half choked. (Can’t see jack with full choke as choke butterfly covers it.)
Went for the clean, came back and wasn’t happy about the idea of fitting the new carb just to have the same problems, so ripped his saw apart from the master switch to the carb and found all sorts of slop, in both ends of the master switch shaft, throttle link to trigger hole, and in the throttle trigger roll pin.
Fixed that slop up, did a very technical (for me) drawing on throat size vs bottom and top on throttle butterfly between the 026 and the ms270, low and behold, they now had the exact same angle.
Anyway, set carb to standard settings and it fired and almost started on full choke, I was a bit slow and master switch was a bit stiff after building the ends up, or it would have started on 2nd pull. But next pull on half choke, she’s away.
I couldn’t tune it, as folks were already in bed, but, gave it a go the next day after a little more freeing up of the master switch shaft and it was dang near perfect.
Since then, the old man has ran probably at least 10L of mix fuel through it and it hasn’t missed a beat. Hasn’t needed a tune from stock standard settings, and not needed the “all forbidden addictive” ether.
Moral of this story (whether it’s luck or not) is that ether kept him cutting for more than the last 2 years, and now the actual problem is fixed, it’s fine without it and can go as hard as it used to. But too much could kill most things straight away too.
I’m not saying ether is good or bad, just saying, it kept him going, but as others said, there’s always another issue if you need ether. And too much will definitely make the problem worse.
Perhaps a good diagnostic tool, and for some ether is cheaper or quicker than the repair. But now we have a brand new spare carb if we need it lol.
(got dads fire chief jacket with me now so no one burns me too bad in my sleep,) haha
sorry moderators.For the less attention span folks. The moral or point is in the last couple of paragraphs. Sorry to the rest that like the full story. But it gives background.
I have 2 generations of motor mechanics ahead of me on one side of the family and 1 generation of forestry in front on the other side.
I’ve worked on Petrol, diesel, 4strokes and 2strokes in my time, not as a qualified trade, but because they were the engines needed to keep the day productive.
Mostly water drilling rigs and chainsaws, (how’s that for opposite) but also needed a car or Ute to get there and I don’t like paying others for mechanical. So I’ve had a crack at most things, but no PHD or UNIT STANDARDS, or whichever the readers/members have at home.
I’m not a huge fan of ether, I think a car can be cranked to check spark and a chainsaw can be drilled over to check for it too, I’ve also seen big diesels that need a sniff in the winter, and those that become addicted to it and end up needing it the next summer.
This is anywhere from a 6cylinder truck to a V12 twin turbo twin supercharged Detroit.
I’ve also heard the dreaded knock after the offsider puts too much ether in too early.
For starter motor engines, crank speed slows in winter and can be mistaken for other issues when all you needed was new batteries, or starter motor.
Then some get hooked on the ether even once the boss finally agrees to new batteries. Other times problem is solved with more crank speed.
I’ve also owned one of the Detroit V6 supercharged diesels, which I couldn’t get moving after blocked fuel filters were replaced, I even had to call a mechanic, I wasn’t happy, but ether got her going and she wasn’t addicted afterwards.
Background over, more to the point. My father, well experienced in forestry and general firefighters tools since he left school, had been starting his Stihl 026 with just a “sniff” of ether, for at least the last 2 years, maybe 3 years.
I finally talked him into the new carb that I found cheap on Trademe.
While waiting for delivery I took his saw apart and took to local Petrol station to blow it out ready for the carb install. (Our own compressor has sand in its @&$# right now) when dissembling before the journey I noticed his throttle position on full and half choke, of course this is more obvious on this model as the choke is in the air filter which was removed. (Anytime I take an air filter cover off, I put them on full choke first, for obvious debris that can move around)
When I saw the 026 throttle basically closed at full and half choke, I new that something wasn’t quite right. firstly only because my 3 girls couldn’t rev that high on half choke start if the throttle butterfly was that closed. So I pulled all my air filters off, all MS’s 270, 660 and 880, sure enough, I could see some throat on the throttle when half choked. (Can’t see jack with full choke as choke butterfly covers it.)
Went for the clean, came back and wasn’t happy about the idea of fitting the new carb just to have the same problems, so ripped his saw apart from the master switch to the carb and found all sorts of slop, in both ends of the master switch shaft, throttle link to trigger hole, and in the throttle trigger roll pin.
Fixed that slop up, did a very technical (for me) drawing on throat size vs bottom and top on throttle butterfly between the 026 and the ms270, low and behold, they now had the exact same angle.
Anyway, set carb to standard settings and it fired and almost started on full choke, I was a bit slow and master switch was a bit stiff after building the ends up, or it would have started on 2nd pull. But next pull on half choke, she’s away.
I couldn’t tune it, as folks were already in bed, but, gave it a go the next day after a little more freeing up of the master switch shaft and it was dang near perfect.
Since then, the old man has ran probably at least 10L of mix fuel through it and it hasn’t missed a beat. Hasn’t needed a tune from stock standard settings, and not needed the “all forbidden addictive” ether.
Moral of this story (whether it’s luck or not) is that ether kept him cutting for more than the last 2 years, and now the actual problem is fixed, it’s fine without it and can go as hard as it used to. But too much could kill most things straight away too.
I’m not saying ether is good or bad, just saying, it kept him going, but as others said, there’s always another issue if you need ether. And too much will definitely make the problem worse.
Perhaps a good diagnostic tool, and for some ether is cheaper or quicker than the repair. But now we have a brand new spare carb if we need it lol.
(got dads fire chief jacket with me now so no one burns me too bad in my sleep,) haha
When did I say it did not. I suggest you read your own post then read the post I made after. I will quote them below
Fatherwheels
Addicted to ArboristSite
Something needs fixed if you require starting fluid, I never bother with it.
You can get a spark plug tester that will illuminate the surrounding so you
will see if spark is present, much better way to proceed, make a short jump
lead to clamp to the plug and the other end to the saw, this also makes it
easier to stay focused on the spark as you pull the engine over without
the plug bouncing off your chosen earth point and obscuring your view of
the spark.
You can get a spark plug tester that will illuminate the surrounding so you
will see if spark is present, much better way to proceed, make a short jump
lead to clamp to the plug and the other end to the saw, this also makes it
easier to stay focused on the spark as you pull the engine over without
the plug bouncing off your chosen earth point and obscuring your view of
the spark.
You can also just grab the plug and pull it over but be prepared for a tingle. Now I am not saying I have done that on purpose though.
As for spark testers I use to carry one one in my pocket to farm auctions when I was looking for engines
As for spark testers I use to carry one one in my pocket to farm auctions when I was looking for engines
Dennbb
ArboristSite Member
I have always used carb/injector cleaner to prime saws. It has some lubrication. But there is already enough residual oil in the engine to prevent any damage that could be caused by dry fuel.
I truly do not understand why folks do not just use mixed fuel. It is so much simpler and zero question of possible damage
Only thing you should use is a squirt of fresh mix.
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2019
- Messages
- 4,683
- Reaction score
- 9,542
Thats easy= some folk just wont accept there is something wrong with a machine and it is out of their depth to diagnose and fix- wont stoop so low as to take it to a shop.
In order to save a repair bill, they look for the repair in a can. Bit of engine start and the motor pops, so on that theory, more engine start might make it run.......
Bob, but a bit of mix/fuel (same kind) IS a diagnostic.
Use it all the time in fuel fed stuff. Cars, trucks, saws, tractors......give it a squirt first....
We had an old F250 (60s) with our dirt bikes in the bed, die coming home. Truck died, no gas, fuel pump DOA. We took off a gas tank from a bike and primed the beast, sure enough it fired. Thinking to my Ford N/NNA tractor stuff......We put the bike tank on the truck roof, ran a gasline to the carb, gravity feed, bungeed the tank to the roof. Ran fine.
McGuyver style. Got us to parts store, and we had enough tools to change SIMPLE MECH PUMP NOT IN THE FUEL TANK, in an hour.
Hope I didn't read Your post wrong.....
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2019
- Messages
- 4,683
- Reaction score
- 9,542
Possibly read it correctly, comprehended it incorrectly?
The message was inexperience reaching for a can of sure to fire rather than diagnose and fix the problem- like trying to tune out an air leak.
If it does not fire on a dribble of fuel mix down the carb throat- there are other problems- stop at that point and fix them.
Is that easier?
devilbiss spray gun cleaning bottle with mixed gas, I use that on all small engines
starting fluid is used on 4 cycle gas engines.. usually fords and chevys with bad fuel pumps. It will break piston rings in diesels and if the hpfp is not properly bled and primed it will nuke it in 10 seconds of engine run time from lack of lubrication.
You havent turned wrenches for a living if you have never superman'd under a hood feeding the engine brake clean, carb clean or even gas from a squirt bottle to keep it running while another tech drives it into the bay or onto the trailer.
starting fluid is used on 4 cycle gas engines.. usually fords and chevys with bad fuel pumps. It will break piston rings in diesels and if the hpfp is not properly bled and primed it will nuke it in 10 seconds of engine run time from lack of lubrication.
You havent turned wrenches for a living if you have never superman'd under a hood feeding the engine brake clean, carb clean or even gas from a squirt bottle to keep it running while another tech drives it into the bay or onto the trailer.
Smitty Smithsonite
ArboristSite Operative
I use it to check for spark and compression in one fell swoop. No screwing around with spark testers, or compression gauges. It either fires, or it won't. If it doesn't, then break out the spark tester - if it does, I just saved 2 steps.
Ether isn't my go-to. I typically use it to seat stubborn tire beads. I grab whatever is closest to me at the moment - time is money. 99% of the time, it's acetone in the Sure Shot.
All that said, like I previously said, I have yet to damage ANY 2-stroke giving it a sniff of ether to test for spark / compression.
Ether isn't my go-to. I typically use it to seat stubborn tire beads. I grab whatever is closest to me at the moment - time is money. 99% of the time, it's acetone in the Sure Shot.
All that said, like I previously said, I have yet to damage ANY 2-stroke giving it a sniff of ether to test for spark / compression.
