ANYONE RUN SEF FUEL PRE- MIX ?( is it worth the extra $ )

[shelby bankston]

What about SEF fuel . Is it worth the extra $.

 

[mikefunaro]

What about SEF fuel . Is it worth the extra $.

Several people on this site have been experimenting with the SEF, motomix, and trufuel premix fuels.

In my experience it's worth the extra $ when used in certain scenarios. Basically, I want to either use it as a storage fuel or use it in equipment which is very seldom used.

For example, most of my wood cutting tends to take place over relatively short bouts of time. I might do a few heavy weeks of cutting and milling in the summer, and then maybe some more in the winter, when I go through gallons of gas. Previously in the off season I would idle equipment out of gas.

Lately, I have been experimenting with storing some of the more frequently used equipment with these fuels. I have an MS 211 that's kind of my go to clean up saw, if branches fall off trees or something like that, bam the little 211 comes to the rescue. I've been keeping that filled with trufuel. Same thing with my handheld blower. The backpack gets idle out, but the handheld after leaf season gets trufuel so when leaves blow into crevices and stuff like that I clean them up with that.

I can't really see using it as a production fuel. But for equipment which is sporadically used or as a storage fuel versus idling out when there is the possibility that the equipment will be needed in a short amount of time, the fuels are worth looking into.

 

[ELECT6845]

Sef fuel

I use the sef fuel and mix it myself with Maxima formula K2. I mixed it at 36:1 and only run it in my ported saws. Reason for this is they set for periods of time with no use. It is a waist of money if you are running your saws everyday or at least once a week.

 

[moody]

Someone should do a performance comparison video.

 

[Halligan]

I've run Motomix and Trufuel lately. However, I just recieved 12 quarts of the SEF from Baileys that I ordered when shipping was 49 cents. When using my saw infrequently I use the fancy canned premix. If I'm going to cut more than a tank or two of gas I mix fresh gas and Stihl Ultra for the job. Once done, I drain the saw of gas and refill with fancy gas and run until all regular gas is run out.

I do this primarily because of ethanol and not because I think it increases performance.

I started a thread here http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/225232.htm that discusses these premixed fuels which may be helpful to you.

 

[CbusRog]

I have three cases of SEF50 on the way. I did research on the big 3, as it were, and decided that the SEF was the best bang for the buck. I figure they're all pretty much the same regarding lack of ethanol and shelf life; the octane game I think is a little different.

SEF and Stihl Motomix both express their octane ratings as R+M/2, also known as the AKI, anti knock index. That's what you see at the pump in the U.S., and what's referred to in most owners manuals. Trufuel uses only the 'R' (RON - research octane number) potion of that formula. You can Wiki it and do the math, but the worst case scenario "pump" octane level for Trufuel is 87. The best case scenario could indeed be 92, as they advertise.

The thing with Trufuel is, I'm not sure what the 'pump' octane could be (87-92). And that may be why it's the least expensive option. Motomix is too expensive anyway I looked at it, so that left me with SEF, which appears to be closer in price to Trufuel.

I didn't buy the SEF for daily use, but rather as a "just in case". For now, I have a close source of Shell 93 octane E0 gas when I need it. I try to keep a couple of cans (formally Trufuel) in each power box for backup, or grab and go situations.

 

[roostersgt]

I see your point regarding the octane ratings and how they're derived. I use the Truefuel mainly for its shelf life and zero ethanol, and the price/availability. Walmart has it for less than $5 per can, Home Depot and Lowes a little more. SEF is spendy at my dealers shop. $8+ per can. My seldom used saws run just fine on the TrueFuel. I'd just use premium pump gas mixed with Stihl Ultra, or a good synthetic for any job requiring several tanks, then dump any left-over into my truck when when done.

 

[whitedogone]

I've been thinking of getting some of the 4 cycle trufuel and mixing it 50/1 with stihl ultra. How long could/should it be good to sit in non running saws?

 

[chrisoppie]

I am all over the storage/infrequent usage for this fuel. we are thinking of using it at our shop for all equpment that gets full service tune ups. Also using it on equipment that is "out of season" tuning a snow blower in June and expecting it to have no fuel issues in December is a problem. Using this fuel can open some options like that.

Husqvarna has some premix out I cant remember the maker, any one?
Well thats aspen fuel, been in use in europe for 10+ years now.
I have heard Husq will have straight fuel by the same maker later this year.

 

[whitedogone]

3 years.....come on:msp_unsure:

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[Trailtrimmer]

I use Motomix or SEF for storage. I just let the saw run low then dump enough in to make sure what's left in the tank is mostly canned stuff and run it for a bit longer. It's great for the off season, but I'll just run pump gas @ 45:1 during the busy times because those cans are spendy.

 

[nmurph]

I believe that too much is made of problems with using E10. E10 will speed the degredation of rubber, but any rubber will weaken in the presence of gasoline. The major manufacturers have used rubber components for the past several years manufactured to tolerate ethanol. Ethanol does evaporate a bit faster than gasoline, and it does reduce the octane a couple of points. But, using 92/93 octance will compensate. Ethanol can absorb some water, but the amount it can absorb through atmospheric exposure is not sufficient to cause seperation. Ethanol laced fuel can go stale, but for that matter all gasoline does. My procedure for a saw that has set more than 3 months is to dump whatever fuel is in the tank and refill it with fresh mix. This method has served me well, and until I see evidence to the contrary, I will continue to do the same. For me, and this has worked well in the E10 environment around here for several years, I use Stihl Ultra (has a stabilizer).

Some of my saws sit for months. I recently restarted a Dolmar 123 that sat for 8/9/10 months with E10/Ultra. It started on the 5/6 pull, just as it would if I last ran it yesterday. The same day I restarted my edger and line trimmer. The edger hadn't been started since August and it fired off on the second pull (thanks to the primer), and the trimmer started as normal with a pump of the primer, a couple of pulls, kicked the choke off, and fired it off. I started a 7900 last night that had been sitting for two years (not run at all since the spring of 2011). The tank was all but empty, but the carb hadn't been run dry. I shot a bit of fuel in the carb throat and it fired right off and ran just fine. I regularly have saws sit for months and I don't notice any ill effects. I know these are anecdotal stories, but so are 99.99% of the stories blaming ethanol. It's just that mine are ethanol non-fatalities.

As for the pre-mixed fuels: I have NEVER used any of them and likely never will. I can imagine a scenario where I would. It would be for a saw at a remote cabin, used once or twice per year. I might buy a can to store for that VERY occassional use. It also probably makes sense to Joe Homeowner, who knows diddly about a trimmer or saw other than how to flood it before he brings it back to Lowe Depot for a replacement, and will never think that fuel can go bad and will use whatever he has available regardless of how long it has sat in his shed with the lid open.

If your equipment is used less than a couple of times per year, use a pre-mixed fuel if you like: the economics of it aren't so bad bc you are likely using very little when you do. If you use your equipment more often, especially those using it weekly, and if you have half a wit about the proper care and use of OPE, I can't see a scenario where it makes a sense. Use an oil with a stabilizer added and leave the pre-mix as a high-profit item sold to the ill-informed.

 

[o8f150]

I believe that too much is made of problems with using E10. E10 will speed the degredation of rubber, but any rubber will weaken in the presence of gasoline. The major manufacturers have used rubber components for the past several years manufactured to tolerate ethanol. Ethanol does evaporate a bit faster than gasoline, and it does reduce the octane a couple of points. But, using 92/93 octance will compensate. Ethanol can absorb some water, but the amount it can absorb through atmospheric exposure is not sufficient to cause seperation. Ethanol laced fuel can go stale, but for that matter all gasoline does. My procedure for a saw that has set more than 3 months is to dump whatever fuel is in the tank and refill it with fresh mix. This method has served me well, and until I see evidence to the contrary, I will continue to do the same. For me, and this has worked well in the E10 environment around here for several years, I use Stihl Ultra (has a stabilizer). Some of my saws sit for months. I recently restarted a Dolmar 123 that sat for 8/9/10 months with E10/Ultra. It started on the 5/6 pull, just as it would if I last ran it yesterday. The same day I restarted my edger and line trimmer. The edger hadn't been started since August and it fired off on the second pull (thanks to the primer), and the trimmer started as normal with the pump the primer, pull a couple of times, kick the choke off, and fire it off. I started a 7900 last night that had been sitting for two years. The tank was all but empty, but the carb hadn't been run dry. I shot a bit of fuel in the carb throat and it fired right off and ran just fine. I regularly have saws sit for months and I don't notice any ill effects. I know these are anecdotal stories, but so are 99.99% of the stories blaming ethanol. It's just that mine are ethanol non-fatalities.

As for the pre-mixed fuels: I have NEVER used any of them and likely never will. I can imagine a scenario where I would. It would be for a saw at a remote cabin, used once or twice per year. I might buy a can to store for that VERY occassional use. It also probably makes sense to Joe Homeowner, who knows diddly about a trimmer or saw other than how to flood it before he brings it back to Lowe Depot for a replacement, and will never think that fuel can go bad and will use whatever he has available regardless of how long it has sat in his shed with the lid open.

If your equipment is used less than a couple of times per year, use a pre-mixed fuel if you like: the economics of it aren't so bad bc you are likely using very little when you do. If you use your equipment more often, especially those using it weekly, and if you have half a wit about the proper care and use of OPE, I can't see a scenario where it makes a sense. Use an oil with a stabilizer added and leave the pre-mix as a high-profit item sold to the ill-informed.

well said,, i was doing some research last night,, i won't go into all the details but according to stihls websight they recommend to drain and run dry also they say their saws are designed to handle 10% ethonol,,, all the research i did 99% of the people say to drain and run dry for long term storage,, i do that but i don't try to burn everything out of the caarb,, i drain and idle until it stops running and put it up,, the reason for that i figure a little bit of oil in whats left will keep the diaphrams from drying out,, i have pulled a lot of carbs apart that have been sitting for a long time and the diaphrams about break in your hand from being so dry,,, i might get a can of the mix from my huskie dealer to just try and see what happens

 

[REJ2]

Like nmurph says, they might have there place. But you better bring more than one can, they dont go far. A Husky 346, two fills per can. A Husky 365, 372 only one fill with about six ozs. left over.

 

[mecreature]

I have some trufuel, motomix and SEF. I have used it all several times.
I also keep a 5 gallon can of ethanol free 92 Octane from a local Farm store.
If I do use e10 fuel mix it with stabil and use stihl ultra in the 2 strokes.

The saws get used less then the other lawn stuff so I try to keep ethanol free fuel in them.

When I am going on an outing where I know I will be using several tanks of gas
I will take a mix of what ever mixed with stihl ultra and fill the other saws that are there just to use it up.
I try to run it pretty dry then refill when I get home after I clean the saw up then run it for a bit with the ethanol free stuff in it.

but what do I know.

 

[KenJax Tree]

I used Shell 93 octane for years with Amsoil Saber but switched to Belray H1R about a year ago mixed at 40:1 and a shot of Startron without any problems. Just recently i found Sunoco 260 GTX 96 octane E free close to me so i'm using that now. I'm sure the canned fuel is great stuff but it sure isn't cost effective.

 

[wyk]

I believe I did this run on 94 SEF. That jug pulled a 225psi after that run.

[video=youtube;YT8gmZRllrg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT8gmZRllrg[/video]

 

[nmurph]

Yes, with that much compression you do need some extra octane. BTW, where is that saw?

 

[wyk]

Yes, with that much compression you do need some extra octane. BTW, where is that saw?

It's in Washington State.

I am currently awaiting delivery of my 365 special chassis, which is in England, near Wales. I meant to pick it up last time I was over, but I have been busy.

BTW, the saw in that vid is running rich to break it in. It's not leaned out for cookies yet...

 

[o8f150]

just for sheets and giggles i picked up 2 cans,, going to use them for long term storage,, i hadn't started my 372 in months so i used it today to cut up a big hickory tree,, i had a heck of a time to get it running,, when i put it up i run it dry,, so what the heck,, figure i would give this a try and see what happens

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