Attitudes towards safety

[Nickrosis]

What will become of us if we continue the prevalent attitudes in arboriculture regarding safety? I fear that we've needlessly arrived at the top of the most dangerous occupations and will continue to hold this unenviable position as long as toxic attitudes continue.

I'm not saying this in response to a specific person or incident but rather to an attitude that I find in myself and others. I did a number of huge removals with friends in the last week, and I keep seeing and hearing the same problems that I've been exposed to for years.

"I know, I know."
"That's how I always do it."
"Just unclip, you're not that high off the ground."
"You didn't see that."
"I had to one-hand it just quickly."
"I always cut with one hand and chuck with the other."
"Oh....Dr. Shigo's here with his chaps!"
"Big cuts only, we've gotta hurry."
"ANSI isn't the law."
"Two TIPs is a new thing - you don't have to do that while cutting."

Sure, you're taking your own life into your own hands in the same way that you are if you speed or drive recklessly. But this is our industry. Our insurance rates. Our friends and co-workers below.

It just pisses me off and saddens me that we have these attitudes about a truly life-endangering activity that we've made a career. The quotes above encapsulate some things that I've said myself, and I can't justify them them. We need to stop dying and injuring ourselves and others more than firemen, policemen, and even commercial fishermen do.

From a young, inexperienced, uppercrusty, student know-it-all.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Real life is a ******.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
This isn't school, it's a social club hangout for a very unsociable species- the tree climber.

"Word...

mah dawg."

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Awwwwwwwe now come on Mr. Balboa; don't sugarcoat it; there can't be a good side! Throw it right in there straight and hard as ye can; it is only a point of view.

 

[jkrueger]

When your hot your hot!

MB and RockyJ, you guys sometimes make it all worth while. I mean that.

So, I do try to build safe practice in the tree, so that it will become automatic when I get as experienced as you guys. Hmmmm, I'll be 90 years old at that time. Oh, well, age is just a darn box we were tought, right?

Today I was up in a big red oak in the crown, and wanted to change my TIP. Ya, the tree was so heavy with growth that I had two branches to stand on and one at my arm and if i were to drop anything it would never make it to the ground. Gee Nick I set the next TIP without tying in with even a lanyard, and I was laughing all the time.

I may not be as experienced as you guys and I can make distinctions.

Lossing my mind for trees and climbing,
Jack:angel:

 

[jkrueger]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
So why are you still here, Nick?

"BECAUSE", he has to finish the semester?
And prove that education needs his validation?

Jack

 

[NeTree]

Does this mean I shouldn't tie limbs off to my bucket or onehand my chainsaw?

 

[rahtreelimbs]

I appreciate both sides. While I am 41 I have only been climbing for 9 yrs. I try to be as safe as possible. I have two wonderful daughters and a great wife and I want to be around for them. On the otherhand, it seems that almost everytime an issue is brought up in this forum an issue is made about safety. Everyone here can appreciate safety, it just doesn't need to be put at face level all the time!

My $.02

 

[jkrueger]

Originally posted by netree
Does this mean I shouldn't tie limbs off to my bucket or onehand my chainsaw?

No, of course not. There is this beautiful thing called wisdom and distiction hitting heads with the weenies opening their eyes for the first time.

Maturation of self is a movie in progress,
Jack

 

[jkrueger]

Originally posted by Nickrosis
Say what you will. I don't have to prove anything to anybody. My job market is pretty secure.

Like I just told Spidie, I take death seriously having lost my brother already and having worked with people who do dangerous things. I've had the same attitudes myself, like I mentioned.

Again, my goal is not to change people's minds but to have a discussion. If people just want to talk about my personal life, go right ahead. It's really not worth your time.

This is just a replication of what's happened several times. I start posting, Rocky and Netree start ripping on me, I leave for a while, and come back later.

Silly, don't leave and don't react! Hold what is your intent and learn from the whole thing.

Jack

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by Nickrosis


This is just a replication of what's happened several times. I start posting, Rocky and Netree start ripping on me, I leave for a while, and come back later.

If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got.

 

[Stumper]

Dan, You have made an excellent point-the stats throw us in with logging and then include everybody. I'll wager that most of the serious injuries in tree related work involve part-timers and temporary laborers. There are an awful lot of dopers and drunks that hire on to do work in the tree care industry for a paycheck or 2 before going on another binge. I don't like that but it is all too true.
I've had my share of bumps scrapes and bruises-that is the nature of this biz- but my only serious injury was a severe sprain of the right elbow-I got that from tripping while stepping off a retaining wall with an armload of brush. PPE and always 2 handing my climbing saw wouldn't have made a bit of difference. I don't think that drop starting my saws had any bearing either.

 

[NeTree]

Well gee Nick... I thought you had me on ignore.

If I was ripping on you, you'd know it.

But sense it was mentioned, yeah, you do come off like a condescending little prick sometimes, and THAT'S what rubs people the wrong way. In your attempts to elevate yourself by "showing what you know", you end up flying in the face of people who have been doing this work a long, long time... like, since before you were a sperm... and doing it quite successfully mind you.

Not to say that technology in our industry hasn't advanced, and that people need to keep up...

Just stop coming off like a know-it-all.

Oh, and the Blakes's hitch on your SSA site is tied wrong.

 

[Stumper]

Nick , My preceding post isn't intended to slam you. I do agree with Brian and Butch that there is more to safety than simply adhering to rules. There are times when the rules can safely be suspended. There are also situations when the rules aren't adequate and EXTRA precautions should be taken. The most potentially useful piece of PPE lies between our ears. The most dangerous situations arise when we don't employ the onboard computer.:angel:

 

[NeTree]

Actually, the Blake's is tied right... just crackin' on ya. Ya looked, didn't ya though?

 

[NeTree]

You're not going to kill him, right...?

 

[okietreedude1]

Nick,

I too feel those in our industry need to be on the safe side. I was once told those that get injured are the ones that get cocky and say "It'll never happen to me." I don't necessarily know this to be true, but it does happen.

there are new 'rules' if you will, that tell us how to do our jobs. Some of them are good (two tips when useing a chainsaw) and others silly (chaps worn while using a saw {but in a tree????!!!}). They are not the law. noone will fine us for not following them.

Ive seen recently a show/video where linemen were using spikes. The man walked up to the pole, grabbed it and started up. when he got to his working spot, he held on for dear life while fishing for his lanyard, throwing it around the pole, switching hands, and clipping in. All while resting on 2- 1/2" spikes burried 3/4" deep in a pole. If anything is unsafe, I think that is, but thats the way theyve "done it for years".

Its become my opinion the men/women on Arboristsite are more truly professionals than the hack/slash//pickup/trailer/ladder men that drive up the idustry hazard rates.

Best of luck w/ your schooling. Youll learn some good things there, but not everything applies to life.

 

[NeTree]

While I have it in mind...

If you ever run into a co-worker THAT bad... do whatever you have to do to make them not your co-worker anymore. Fire 'em, switch crews, etc.

Guys like that are a liability to have around, and it's only a matter of time before they end up hurting or killing someone.

 

[a_lopa]

i guess we just have to put up with it rocky altho it can get a bit much getting a safety lesson off a not yet competent nothing in my eyes yet,but they are always going to get off on some crap there teacher has rambled on about they might make a average council crew member using a ht75 and hand saw but will never be able to go there own way and know that you can get by,i think thats enough from me i might get more e mails!

 

[a_lopa]

what are you really aiming to be nick ,not a personal attack i would like you to clarify if you are going to be a working arborist or an arborist/consultant then it might make it easier to understand where you are coming from.i once read if your in trees for the money get out, well i aint leaving i would make you cringe at work but everyone goes home happy you can only be as safe as you want to be i think its great that there isnt many competant or worthy young guys doing tree work makes it better for us guys who done hard yards,what is easy for me is a nightmare to you