Average Groundman education level

[rmihalek]

I worked as a groundie for a few months, on and off, between college semesters. Mainly throwing branches into a chipper. After reading all the posts here about groundies doing this or that, I started to wonder if the pros here could answer a question for me: in your experience, what is the average level of education that your groundmen had/have? Have they graduated high school or dropped out, college degree, etc.?

This might be better served by a posting a poll, so if the thread survives, maybe I'll give it a try. Or, perhaps someone can set up a poll if they think this topic warrants such.

Thanks,

Bob

 

[ORclimber]

Average is GED or diploma. IMO attitude is more important than paper on the wall. But the guys who have the education and good attitude will get whatever job they want.

 

[Brock2saws]

Bob,

Admittedly, I discovered my love of tree work a bit later than most--I started out as a groundman and I had a Ph.D.

The most educated groundie that I've worked with had 2 yrs of postsecondary schooling from a vocational college that graduated students as "Chainsaw Technicians." Don't dismiss this degree out of hand, this is the real deal and these boys know how to cut.

On the whole though, I'd have to say this is the exception. I don't think I've ever worked with a groundman who had 4 yrs of postsecondary education. They just don't need it.

To be sure, I haven't had any Bachelor of Science or MBA's knocking on my door, wanting to drag brush around all day.

Cheers,
Brock

 

[Nathan Wreyford]

I am not sure exactly how the education system in mexico works so I can't tell you based on my experience in Texas.

My current ground help is Irish. He is bar none the best I have worked with. He has been a groundman longer than I have been doing tree work. He never graduated highschool.

.02

 

[jamie]

me

i am primarilly a groundie, which doesnt bother me too much, when i get to climb its in non critical situations.

i have a Honours degree....and a professional qualification....i would say that i am perhaps a bit unique as most folks round my parts have HNDS etc.....how much of my degree do i use? not a lot...apart from the other day a customer was talking about james hutton and gelogy and i was the only one talking back.....



jamie

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by TreeCo
High school diploma or less. Often less.

Dan

Usually much less.

 

[Froggy]

We have groundie that has a 4 yr degree in business. Had a high paying job at the bank. Quit it all to drag brush and try to climb. He's been around since December, and looks like by winter he'll be traveling on to Montana to give real estate a try. Cool dude!! But tree work isn't going to be his thing.:blob4:

 

[Nathan Wreyford]

I think the most important thing a degree shows is that someone has the ability to learn and stick with something for at least 4-5 years.

Most ground men don't have that and that is why you get so many people lamenting about what jugheads many of them are.

A good trainable groundman is golden.

 

[Jumper]

Four year under graduate degree in Commerce here. I do not want to work in an office ever again, and being retired from the military and with a smallish pension gives me the financial leeway to work at things I like, and the rest of the time have people fire pucks at me.

First boss I started with did not believe that I wanted to work for him, especially given his father in law was a retired Major and knew all about my background. On the otherhand I spent a lot of time hot/cold, sweaty, tired and dirty and at great heights.

I maintain a couple of resumes, one which just says I graduated from high school and spent 22 years in the Army in very generic terms. Some people get really antsy when their employees have a piece of paper and they do not, so why make things uncomfortable. I am not telling a lie by saying I only graduated from something less than is actually the case.

Nathan your comments re degrees hit it right on the head. Most of what I learned I have forgotten, but I did stick it out for four not always happy years.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Most good groundmen eventually move on to climbing. And if somethings stopping them from doing that, in their hearts they should at least want to.

I think I said that right...

 

[wiley_p]

After reading the posts, I thought about it and every good groundman I've worked with had either 5+ years good experience or a 4 year degree that was obtained without a without a lot of financial support.

 

[Dadatwins]

I grew up in the tree biz, as my father owned a company, so groundman education probably started before I started formal school. Have seen a lot of folks who have all kinds of degrees from buildings but not one shred of common sense in the field. These folks will sit in the drop zone to double-knot shoelaces while the climber is cutting the tree. Never really focused on education level of groundies or climbers more focused on ability to do the job without getting themselves or others hurt.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
, in their hearts they should at least want to (climb).

MB I've known a few who understood their place was on the earth not in the air, and were happy with that. Many of us whose place is in the air can not work inside, or in close proximity with people for long durations (O that's right you were in the Navy; then present company excluded).

I qalways thought I was one of those, but now I know I'm really not. I've had to do a lot inside with groups of people, like 27 teenagers in the same room all day That takes a lot of what climbing does not, but I've learned to like/tolerate it, and I've met others who are resigned to it with no regrets about not going off the ground.

A groundman who wants to climb usually will find a way, then you've got to train a new one. Better top start with a terrestrial type. They're not all jealous; climbing ain't such a big deal after all. Re education, a lot of it is counterproductive. When I was on a big crew the dumbest worker had a forestry degree but no sense.

 

[MasterBlaster]

When I started as a groundie it was $20 a day. I asked what the climber made, it was $3.75 hr.

I began climbing at my first opportunity.

For me it wasn't a jealousy thing, it was a cash flow thing.

 

[rmihalek]

This is really cool; some great responses. As with almost anything, it seems to be that hands-on learning is the way to learn the trade. That's what I discovered back in '83, and '84 when I did some groundman work.

I think "book learning" at least gives the person some mental tools to help the crew tackle a difficult job like the willingness to think things through a bit before acting, and maybe the ability to discuss history or literature with a client may result in some more jobs?

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by rmihalek
"book learning" at least gives the person some mental tools to help the crew tackle a difficult job

Absolutely. The most difficult jobs are the ones where you have to figure out what's wrong with the tree and how to fix it.
That's a whole lot harder than removals; it requires both common and uncommon sense plus facts from books.
A groundman who can't climb for whatever reason can out-earn any climber is s/he masters diagnosis and treatment skills.

 

[blue]

worked with one today with a pre-school level of intelligence.watched him drag brush through a gateway brush end first not butt end.no hope for some i guess

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by Guy Meilleur
That's a whole lot harder than removals; it requires both common and uncommon sense plus facts from books.

You crack me up, Guy.

 

[arboromega]

well... some of the most understanding people i have had run ground for me have been other climbers. i have known great climbers with less than high school education and great climbers with college degrees. but the best ground crew i ever had was from various places in mexico.my spanish was worse than their english, but those guys did not stop working for anything...it took me several attempts to convince them that taking a break for water and food was ok. that was when i did contract state highway clearance. they only got paid 7-8$/hr and i doubt they had any education at all, but i think hard work can say more about a person's character than any piece of paper we may possess.

 

[matthias]

Started with a new groundman today and thought it was great. High school education and seven years in fast food restauraunt.
He worked the night shift flipping burgers and then came and dragged brush for eight hours after driving a half hour to find us. He could back the chipper up as well as anyone else by lunch and I think I even seen him grease the chipper twice!!

Now I'm sure he'll have some faults down the road but it was sure nice to work with somebody who does what he's told and keeps his mouth shut. Work ethic outweighs education anyday.