Average Groundman education level

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
You crack me up, Guy.

I thought that might touch an orange button somewhere, but that's not why I wrote it.

What's so funny about preservation work, Butch?:blob6:

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by Guy Meilleur
What's so funny about preservation work, Butch?:blob6:

Ha. Not a thing, Guy. I was just wondering what's so simpleton about a intense takedown.

:angel:

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Who said simpleton? Removals require common and uncommon sense. And I've learned here that if you want to progress and excel at rigging, looking at some references and rethinking methods can help you get there.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Trees die, guys.

Do ya'll hate undertakers?

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
Trees die, guys.
Do ya'll hate undertakers?

You crack me up, Butch. Dr. Kevorkian is in prison because people do not believe other people have the wisdom to wield the power to legally kill.

Trees live, Butch. Do you hate arborists? For every dead or fatally damaged tree you undertake, how many healthy living ones do you kill?

I don't hate undertakers. I just do not understand people who have the ability to be doctors but choose to be murderers instead. I know the money's easier and it's less trouble and it's nice to work short hours and bring home no headaches and some "don't like cheap eats" , and all the other great reasons we hear for being a mercenary arboreal Kevorkian who routinely whacks trees because of stupid human reasons.

It seems like a Faustian bargain, which can't be covered up by talking about undertakers. Hit men seem charming in the movies, but in real life they aren't.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I have nothing to do with sales.

I'm just a hired gun. They say take it down, I take it down. They say trim it, I trim it. Most cranes are involved in TD's only. Do you frown upon crane operators because of that?

You need to come with me on my next big TD. You can tell me THEN how much easier it is than trimming.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Re: I have nothing to do with sales.

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
You need to come with me on my next big TD. You can tell me THEN how much easier it is than trimming.

It's harder climbing to prune the ends than whack the leads. I have no doubt that big TD's are hard, and I've seen way too many of them already, up close and personal, but thanks for the offer.

I got nothing against crane operators, if they're willing to make an effort to plant trees, as well as they can take em down.:angel:

This thread veered around the time I pointed out that groundies can make more than climbers if they learn diagnosis and care. (That the money is cleaner is another issue.) They can also do that work into their 80's --how long are you gonna climb, Paladin?

"I'm just a hired gun. They say take it down, I take it down."

They say jump off a bridge, you .

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Please, the title of the thread is supposed to be about "Average Groundman Education Level"; yet seems to be relating the same in climber's; wouldn't that constitute a different thread?

Mike, your previous Xray was much better, if only easier to comprehend; and prolly truer protrait from what i've herd.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Butch thinks removals are hard because he's never trimmed a tree.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
I guess you are as much of a tree murderer as you accuse us of being?

Some blood is on my hands, too. But I put ten back for every one I've cut.

RJ if you mock others as "Lovey", I guess that would make you "Hatey". Isn't that the country that's drowning in mud now because they cut down all their trees?
ho, ho, ho.

Whacko is as whacko does.

Back to the thread, Groundies with education and awareness can easily out-earn climbers.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Originally posted by Guy Meilleur
Groundies with education and awareness can easily out-earn climbers.

I'd sat that's the trend, if you include sales people. A good commisioned saleman makes a lot more than a bare knuckled grunt.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by Guy Meilleur
Back to the thread, Groundies with education and awareness can easily out-earn climbers.

I ain't met one yet.

And what in the world does jumping off a bridge have to do with treework?

 

[MasterBlaster]

Yes, I imagine. But cyberspace and the real word is much different,

 

[ORclimber]

The brush dragging groundman isn't likely to make more than a climber. But the self employed consultants, sprayers, stump grinders, and high end installers/maintenance people could.

I've worked with a couple guys in Portland that do high end maintenance(not mowing), installs, and consulting that do really well. They are booked way out, and don't have the expenses/ risks of big tree work.

 

[OutOnaLimb]

Dang, Guy, when are you gonna get off of this fricken dont cut down trees kick? As arborists thats our job 50% of the time. I suppose next your gonna start randing and raving about hunting, "all these deer, elk, and moose have a right to live, we shouldnt kill them" Oh yeah what about the ones you run into on the road and it screws up your vehicle? Oh, or the coyote that eats your little toy poodle cuz the coyotes are taking over urban areas and start feeding on your pets. Get off your soap box and quit preaching. If I get banned for saying that then so be it, Im just tired of hearing the tree hugger crap.

Kenn

 

[MasterBlaster]

 

[OutOnaLimb]

Oh, and just to keep this on topic, my groundie is kick a$$, he just got out of the Marines 4 months ago, and is startin to climb. If you want to take this literally, we have both worked for blood money, the crappy thing about cuttin down trees, is that you do have to clean up your mess when your done.

Kenn

 

[MasterBlaster]

This will help!

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

every body earns more than me i'm a poor washed out tramp/hobo

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

The analogy comparing an arborist to a human medical doctor is a good one.
If a doctor had 50% of his patients die, that wouldn't be so good. As a doctor and an arborist get better, those percentages should drop. A good arborist can save trees that might otherwise be removed. A good part of being able to save trees is knowledge. The rest is salesmanship. One also has to care about trees to be motivated to even try.
When I get called on to do a removal, I almost always ask why its coming down. One reason I get paid a premium is for my knowledge, I’m not just a machine blindly following direction.
It must be sad to be an arborist and not care about trees. What’s the motivation to learn or to do quality work? Heck, you can’t do quality work because you don’t know or care.
Trust me, I fully understand the frustration of being called to a job on a wooded lot to remove trees, just because it will reduce the lawn raking in fall. Some battles cannot be won, but as Guy has pointed out many times, many can be won!
To me removing a tree is about as bad as it gets for an arborist, the cash flow from this tree ends, an asset to the customer, his neighborhood, and the planet is lost.
The work of removing a tree takes very little skill or knowledge, compared to saving a tree. So removal work is less challenging.
OrClimber, you seem to be a young kid just starting out in the world of arboriculture. It would do you (and others here) to start thinking about trees as patients. Once you actually start to care about what you’re doing, you’ll see a big change in the way you do things. The outcome will be positive for you, and the trees.