Bar Types?

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WOLF_RIVER_MIKE

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I wish someone would explain to me the +/- of bar types, ie hard nose, sprocket and roller. By the way guys, this is an awsome list, so much info. I was just on STIHL site and saw where the TimberSports series is coming to Memphis. I'll be there.
 
I was just going to ask the same question. What is a roller nose bar? What are its benefits? Does anyone have a picture of one? Thanks, Steve.
 
there are some pictures of a roller nose on this site, back a page or two? but i don't know what the advantage is. Racing, but firewood?
 
I use roller nose bars for racing due to the fact that they dont make a 1/2" pitch sprocket nose. I buy older rollernose bars and install them on my racing bars.
 
is there no body making a "roller nose" bar now? Again, sorry for my ignorance.

) "The Meek shall inherit the earth, after we're through with it."
 
I dont know of anybody who does anymore...I believe part of the reason that they went by the wayside is the fact that the chain had to travel through the air to enter the roller and again when it left the roller to re-enter the bar groove on the bottom. Saftey Issue I suspect...may Walt or others can add to this and give further reasons.
 
Howdy,

In answer to the questions about Rollernose guidebars:

Rollernose bars have a pulley-like nose assembly with the outside sideplates supporting the chain for the turn around the nose, by the bottoms of the sidelinks.

Rollernoses are prefered for contest cutting since they shed sawdust freely without the restriction of the sawdust/chips that are being conveyored between the drivelink tangs jamming into the space between the sprocket teeth. (This is part of the reason spur sprockets on the drive end are better than rim sprockets for contest cutting also).

The bearing capacity of a Rollernose is greater, usually with longer and larger bearings (if the sideplate is cupped) than sprocketnose. These larger bearings were available on the market before the smaller bearings were that sprocketnose bars require. It was the cheap availability of the high precision bearing by Torrington, that made sprocketnose bars feasable. (Early attempts used larger diameter bearings that would spit out of there, and get between the sprocketwheel and the sideplate easily. The bearings were made of "Keewatin" material that proved inferior due to poorer wear resistance also).

Bearing race wear is less in a rollernose, since the fixed race is the Outside diameter of the bearing set rather than the inside as with a sprocketnose, where the inner race has to be much smaller and is the one fixed in place. (And hence subject to wear from the sliding and skewing bearings). Heattreatment of this sprocketnose inner race and race failure due to cracking if over rivetted, is a problem to this day. (Most recently observed on Stihl laminated small bars). It is a never ending problem. You make it hard enough to wear well, and then it splits if you over crush the rivets at rivetting.


The Rollernose bar has lower kickback potential than a sprocketnose bar of the same nose radius. (Because on the sprocketnose the chain is lifted off of the sideplates and only supported in the center, it tips back easily on the sprocketnose, which can cause the depthgauge to plunge or snag into the wood).

Now for the disadvantages!

The nose is laterally weaker. (bends or deflects sideways easily) It is only held in place by that inner laminate "spade" that is only the gauge of groove between the sideplates thick. The sprocketnose has two sideplates riveted to the bar body, and therefore far stronger.

The roller will stick in cold weather, and the chain slide over the sideplates, burning it up promptly.

Arguementably, chain derailing is easier on rollernose bars. (This depends a lot on the design of the sprocket nose you are comparing with!)

There is a "dead spot" between the roller and the bar body that is a no-cut area when limbing. Older designs fought this by extending the bar body right out to the roller edge, but these would hammmer out and chip the rail hardnening badly. Later designs cut the area out for about an inch, making a nasty dead spot, but eleminating the chipping. Attempts to stellite this area failed miserably, since stellite has very poor impact resistance. (It is great against sliding friction only).

Sprocketnose proved cheaper to produce, and rapidly replaced rollernoses, primarily for this cost and ease of production reason. Producing those rollernose sideplates is far more difficult than you would imagine. Depending on design, there is one more part in a rollernose assembly than in a sprocketnose.

Here is a trick for you pro's that occassionally will have a sprocketnose freeze up or jam when you are in the woods, (and up the hill from the truck). Just turn the bar over and force it to run the oposite direction! Usually the nose will come free and with luck, you may be able to finish the day before it grenades on you. After it does, of course, the bearings may jam in the groove of the bar, and they are really difficult to get out of there. Often you have to grind them out to repair.

Regards,
Walt Galer
 
Thank you for the explanation Mr. Galer. Basically a round nose bar is an idler pulley with a depth to clear an .050 or .058 or whatever chain depth, with some side plates to keep the chain centered?
 
Howdy,

Incidently, that thin wheel on the air tool, is how you remove the topplates (just out on the overthrown portion) of every-other cutter pair, to make a ripping chain.

It is a whole lot easier than it looks if you secure the chain in a benchvise (not real tight) by the drivelinks. If you do it quickly, you do not even burn the remaining cutter.

Regards,
Walt Galer
 
the biggest complaint about the roller-nose bar is the tip is bigger in the end to accomadate the bearings stuffed inside. the end actually drags on both sides of the kerf. for the compitetion use that does not really matter because the nose is completly through the cant and does not come in contact with the wood. GB made roller-nose bars in the past but i beleive they phased them out. i have found the sprocket nose to be just as fast and more comfortable on the wallet. there are some roller-nose bars still out there if you take the time to look. a local dealer has some 20 inch titanium bars left in his stock if anyone is interested.. protect yourselves; marty
 
Hi Jonathan, nice 357 Sno Pro, you will have to send it to Walkers so we have the same saw and then we can race at the Clearwater revival. Tundraotto wants to join in too but we have to make sure that he doesnt put his chain on backwards again though, however he may be a safer cutter that way, lol.
Will a Toyota carry a 372XP?
The 357 Kid
 
Very nice Homelites, Jonathan. Will post a pic of my Super XL 130 when I have it back together
 

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