Barber Chair question

[bitzer]

13 year old thread huh? And boring is boring

 

[RandyMac]

'chair 'em for the noise of it

 

[HumBurner]

'chair 'em for the noise of it

sometimes it's easier to intentionally chair a small tree instead of having to cut it on the ground. not often, but sometimes.


around here, tan oak, madrone, and alder/willow are prone to chair depending on the lean and rot condition. obviously pine.

at a friend/client's cabin i did a coos bay on a really rotten tan oak about 24" dia before the rot got to it. it still chaired at the end. had a feeling it was going to happen and was well prepared, so no worries, but it was still an in-the-moment-surprise.

 

[046]

 

[ArtB]

Dija know ya can always put a couple wraps of chain around the trunk above the cut if a-feared of a barber chair.

Merry Christmas.

 

[HumBurner]

Man, if it hadn't been for the other branches catching that thing, it'dve kicked back at you hard.

 

[JanThorCro]

Tree Machine:

Example: One places their back-cut a few feet (pretty sure you meant inches) above their face. Ineffective and you are falling without a face. One matches their back-cut exactly with the apex of say an open face and the back-cut is at an optimum placement to work with the face.

So every time we move our back-cut up just slightly, we are moving further into a less effective relationship between the back-cut and face.

Or could you also say?

As we move our back cut above the apex of our notch, are we just effectively making our hinge wider and putting ourselves in a better position to trigger our beloved Barber Chair?

Please feel free to straighten out my take on this. I cut 95% dead pines, a few dead Cherry, dead or drooping Birches, dead Ash and unfortunately dead Aspens or as we call em Poplars. I also use that bore cut (with a 70 - 90 degree opening) on nearly all my trees and have not had any problems safely felling forward leaning trees.

 

[046]

another vote for strapping trunk above cut to prevent a barber chair
instead of chains, I'll use a good quality trucker tie down 2in strap

much safer vs performing correct bore cut, etc for folk who don't cut every day.
don't have any hard numbers but all you are doing is prevent trunk from splitting, NOT holding full force of fall

typical breaking weight for 2in hold down strap aprox 10k lbs ..
working load is about 1/3 break rating 2in nylon strapped 3-4x rotations, cinched tight is pretty darn secure
chains higher break ratings but a pita to get tight/use

http://www.ratchetstraps.info/load-limits-ratings/

 

[ArtB]

Good suggestion> Strap would also be a lot lighter if you have to carry stuff into the woods any distance.

 

[RandyMac]

straps and chains are for securing loads on trucks

 

[ArtB]

and towing cars, trucks, etc. And pulling stumps and pulling trees over.
And

 

[catbuster]

That chain might give you enough time to get out from under a tree while it’s sliding up the taper, but if the hinge is real big and your back cut is really far above the face the tree will chair, period. That’s why the Humboldt is safer and more effective. Boring and the coos bay (triangle) cut are the best ways to avoid a chair, period.

Sorry about Randy, he’s usually right but he’s a little grumpy.

 

[046]

please note my comments for using straps wrapped 3x+ times around trunk was for folks who don't cut much
don't think that applies to folks cutting 6ft+ DBH trunks

 

[northmanlogging]

ratchet straps, chains, ropes, cables.

All equal more **** that can become projectiles if the tree decides to chair.

most chains are rated at 7500# WLL, trucker straps 10000 load limit (what they don't tell you is that means its rating is only 3300#), neither is rated for shock load. I've broke both with a 4000# pick up truck, and I will shred them like paper with my skidder.

now couple that with a tree that weighs in around 15000-20000 pounds, limbs, green sap, and needles and leaves attached, that has been standing for 70-90 years, that is a whole lot of stored energy, just waiting to kill someone.

Best off learning to make the proper cuts the reduce and or eliminate the possibility of a chair from happening at all

 

[sb47]

Try another barber, his chairs may work better.

 

[046]

ok .. incoming crap about how bad this video is .. just kidding ...
video is old as the hills in terms of media put out by BC gov



this is for you folks giving me crap about using straps for smaller leaners
don't be fooled by small leaners and how dangerous they can be
it didn't help that there was no escape route on top of not knowing his cuts

 

[catbuster]

The WorksafeBC videos are the best instructive videos on falling trees on the internet.

I've seen the second video before. The person who got killed was a brush slasher, not a faller. Operator error and bad judgement killed the guy. Nobody is giving you crap about small leaners. Straps are just not something anyone should trust to keep a tree from chairing. Proper technique is what someone should trust. If you know or have learned how to do something, take the time to do it right instead of relying on something that isn't meant to do what it's doing and there's a mediocre chance of helping.

 

[rwoods]

Points well made, Northman and Catbuster.

and towing cars, trucks, etc. And pulling stumps and pulling trees over.
And
View attachment 785433

The man in the picture doesn’t look to have gotten the BC memo on the depth of the face cut for heavy leaners - assuming that the tree is one.

Ron

 

[northmanlogging]

ok .. incoming crap about how bad this video is .. just kidding ...
video is old as the hills in terms of media put out by BC gov



this is for you folks giving me crap about using straps for smaller leaners
don't be fooled by small leaners and how dangerous they can be
it didn't help that there was no escape route on top of not knowing his cuts

Neither of those vids recommended using a strap or a chain. The BC faller vid did illustrate a triangle and T coos bay cut quite nicely though, notice they didn't bore and leave a trigger...
Both of those methods work very well, better then bore and strap/GOL/SSD

the other vid was made after some moron got himself killed doing things he had no business doing, neither the training or the experience to do it safely

 

[046]

Neither of those vids recommended using a strap or a chain. The BC faller vid did illustrate a triangle and T coos bay cut quite nicely though, notice they didn't bore and leave a trigger...
Both of those methods work very well, better then bore and strap/GOL/SSD

the other vid was made after some moron got himself killed doing things he had no business doing, neither the training or the experience to do it safely

don't remember ever claiming it did.
also I never told anyone not to use proper cutting techniques while using strap wrapped 3x-4x
what I suggested was for folks that don't cut much .. straps adds a margin of safety

I never suggested chains .. a royal pita
adding straps on smaller leaners, then proceed with proper cuts.
which is why I posted up a proper training video that didn't use a bore cut and trigger.
reason for second video was to illustrate little leaners can be dangerous and to show proper cut for small leaners.

all the strap has to do to prevent trunk from splitting .. NOT hold up force for entire tree/fall