Basic Beginnings

[onemanfell91]

Howdy everybody,

Anyway, I'd love some advice to best set me up for the most success as an arborist. Any recommendations on course work, seminars, actual school, etc. ? I'm in this 100%.

Also, any advice on equipment? I wanted to try and stick American but we know there's few and far between...so I'm thinking STIHL since they're so highly rated.

 

[irhunter]

Get an entry-level job with a small reputable tree company. Report back after a year, or so.

Roy

 

[Del_]

Buy the I.S.A. Certified Arborist study guide and memorize it.

Then get certified.

 

[pdqdl]

Howdy everybody,

Anyway, I'd love some advice to best set me up for the most success as an arborist. Any recommendations on course work, seminars, actual school, etc. ? I'm in this 100%.

Also, any advice on equipment? I wanted to try and stick American but we know there's few and far between...so I'm thinking STIHL since they're so highly rated.

Any of our advice will be too generalized until you give us more details about yourself. So far, you've only given us a non-specific goal. Without a starting point, this is a journey we cannot finish.

• How old are you?
• what is your relative experience?
• life status: stuff like married, kids, wealth, education?
• what part of the world are you in? Local economy is important!
• what is your current equipment list?
• What are your physical traits?

My advice for a 19 year old kid out of high school with no work experience, equipment, or startup capital will be significantly different than a 40 year old guy, recently retired from the Army. It also changes a lot if we make that a 25 year old femaile college graduate with a liberal arts degree and two years of working for a tree company.

Who you are makes a difference as to the advice you get. That being said, knowledge is power. Learn about the business by learning about trees, and the business of trees.

As to the I.S.A. Certified Arborist study guide? https://wwv.isa-arbor.com/store/product/7/
That would certainly be a good start on becoming a certified arborist, but I'd suggest you learn a bit more about the business of being an arborist. You may not know that there are quite a few different varieties of arborist, and they are significantly different. Do you wish to be a "certified arborist, a climbing arborist, utility arborist, a municipal arborist? ISA has 8 different categories of arborist certification; there is even a category for a Board Certified Master Arborist, but that would only be possible after you had learned the basics.

As a "got tired of paying dues" (formerly) certified arborist, I consider myself an expert in all the various certifications except utilities. I've pretty much done it all otherwise, and there are even aspects of arboriculture that ISA doesn't address. For example, they don't even mention timber management nor lumber harvesting, which I consider very important aspects of the "tree business". ISA doesn't discuss or care about how to run a tree service. either. That would be TCIA. https://treecareindustryassociation.org/

https://treecareindustryassociation.org/#our-mission​

 

[onemanfell91]

Thank you for the response. My apologies, I thought I copied my whole post from "introduce yourself."

But to answer your questions...


How old are you?

33


what is your relative experience?

• In terms of arboriculture, none. Post high school, my working years have been spent mostly cooking and serving in restaurants, with some landscape, irrigation, light construction, and gas&oil field sprinkled in.

life status: stuff like married, kids, wealth, education?

• Single, no kids, no money(but can crack down and live well below my means), no significant education. Dropped out of college twice right out of HS, went to community college at age 27 (2018), took basic life classes like economics, accounting, business, college algebra and I actually somewhat excelled(lots of scholarships, honor roll, deans list, etc.)

what part of the world are you in? Local economy is important!

• Rochester, NY. 1 hour east of Buffalo, 4 north of Pittsburg, 1 west of Syracuse. There's some money, some poverty, but definitely people who spend money dolling up their land.

what is your current equipment list?

• • -No chainsaw(returned 20" Ego that got stuck in a 200 year old oak)
    Any suggestions?
    -Loppers
    -choppin axe
    -hack saw
    -Some rop
• -Harness
  - not much else

What are your physical traits?


6'1"
190lbs
Somewhat strong/athletic
can maneuver quite well in trees. LOVE climbing trees, always have, always will.



This was the rest of my post...


Nick, 33, Upstate NY.

Well simply said, God opened my eyes earlier this year and is still helping me see that a life working outdoors is how I will do the most good. I turned my gardening hobby that started this year into a business launch which quickly became classic lawn care, fall cleanup, gutter cleaning, snow-blowing, and now I'm adding my favorite....TREES. I always loved climbing as a kid, even as a teen, smoked a couple J-birds in them high branches, got older and found myself in trees again...don't know how I didn't think of this as a career beforehand

 

[Kdavis2685]

Thank you for the response. My apologies, I thought I copied my whole post from "introduce yourself."

But to answer your questions...

• How old are you?
  33
• what is your relative experience?
  In terms of arboriculture, none. Post high school, my working years have been spent mostly cooking and serving in restaurants, with some landscape, irrigation, light construction, and gas&oil field sprinkled in.

• life status: stuff like married, kids, wealth, education?

Single, no kids, no money(but can crack down and live well below my means), no significant education. Dropped out of college twice right out of HS, went to community college at age 27 (2018), took basic life **** like economics, accounting, business, college algebra and I actually excelled, lots of scholarships, honor roll, deans list, etc.

• what part of the world are you in? Local economy is important!

Rochester, NY. Hour east of Buffalo, 4 north of Pittsburg, 1 west of Syracuse.

• what is your current equipment list?

-No chainsaw(returned 20" Ego that got stuck in a 209 year old oak)
suggestions?
-Loppers
-choppin axe
-hack saw
-Some rope
-much else

• What are your physical traits?

6'1"
190lbs
can maneuver quite well in trees. LOVE climbing trees, always have, always will.

I am 39 and got into arborist work 2 years ago, so I feel I could tell you my path.
I was into chainsaws and felling for firewood (had friends who were wildland firefighters, owned tree nurseries, were arborists, etc). I had a small 50cc and medium/big 79cc saw, and had extensively researched felling to be safe, and had been taught in the field by my peers. I had bought the book, To fell a tree by Jeff Jepson (highly recommend for all chainsaw owners).
One day my wife and I helped an arborist buddy with a removal. I fell in love with the rigging and analyzing his climbing - but I also recognized the danger and wanted to be better. I continued occasionally helping, but also bought 2 books. The tree climbers companion by Jeff Jepson (absolutely buy this book! Best resource ever and is a small read/field manual). General Tree work by Baranyak (dense and slightly outdated but useful still - recommend reading after you have some experience and not before).
I watched YouTube videos on portawraps and basic rigging, and anything arborist related. After a year of study and experience, I wanted to climb and felt ready. My brother in law had a tree that needed removed, and we traded the cost of basic gear for the removal. I climber and pruned a few trees before the removal. And then we got it done this was about 1-1/2 years into my journey. At the 1 year mark, I could have easily joined any small/medium tree service as a valuable 'groundie' - but that is because I was efficient with knots, rigging, and self managing the workflow on the ground. If you can let the climber focus on climbing, and not need direction from them, also being assertive based on what you see from the ground - they will love you. But you have to love to work and keep yourself busy. Anticipate everything you can and work ahead, have ropes ready before they ask, and be aware and calling out hazards and your plan.
The industry certifications require years of hours working before you can take an exam. So my advice to you is:
1. Buy The tree climbers companion
2. Watch basic portawrap videos online
3. Get on craigslist, and help an arborist. Gain some experience. Reflect and study what you feel weak on that would improve the safety of the climber.
4. Invest if you like it. Buy nice chainsaw pants and your own helmet. You get out of it what you put in. If you dedicate yourself to it, you will be rewarded. Good knowledgeable help in this industry is hard to find.
5. Learn from the small tree companies about their beginning. Hear their personal stories.
6. You can be creative starting out. If you work hard, and rent equipment (just what you really need like a dump trailer) and do everything else the hard way, you can start your own company. In 1-2 years doing this, you can have your own business with everything you need (dump truck and chipper).
7. Mentor. Finding your own helpers will be the biggest challenge at this point. Share knowledge. They may leave you, like you did, but it will make you safer the better they are.
8. Go to arborist competitions or events, even just to watch. Be thirsty for knowledge. There is a ton of gear, new and old, and many ways of doing things. Stay focused on the basics of what you need, but open to new things that increase efficiency.
9. Have fun, and be humble and safe.

 

[onemanfell91]

I am 39 and got into arborist work 2 years ago, so I feel I could tell you my path.
I was into chainsaws and felling for firewood (had friends who were wildland firefighters, owned tree nurseries, were arborists, etc). I had a small 50cc and medium/big 79cc saw, and had extensively researched felling to be safe, and had been taught in the field by my peers. I had bought the book, To fell a tree by Jeff Jepson (highly recommend for all chainsaw owners).
One day my wife and I helped an arborist buddy with a removal. I fell in love with the rigging and analyzing his climbing - but I also recognized the danger and wanted to be better. I continued occasionally helping, but also bought 2 books. The tree climbers companion by Jeff Jepson (absolutely buy this book! Best resource ever and is a small read/field manual). General Tree work by Baranyak (dense and slightly outdated but useful still - recommend reading after you have some experience and not before).
I watched YouTube videos on portawraps and basic rigging, and anything arborist related. After a year of study and experience, I wanted to climb and felt ready. My brother in law had a tree that needed removed, and we traded the cost of basic gear for the removal. I climber and pruned a few trees before the removal. And then we got it done this was about 1-1/2 years into my journey. At the 1 year mark, I could have easily joined any small/medium tree service as a valuable 'groundie' - but that is because I was efficient with knots, rigging, and self managing the workflow on the ground. If you can let the climber focus on climbing, and not need direction from them, also being assertive based on what you see from the ground - they will love you. But you have to love to work and keep yourself busy. Anticipate everything you can and work ahead, have ropes ready before they ask, and be aware and calling out hazards and your plan.
The industry certifications require years of hours working before you can take an exam. So my advice to you is:
1. Buy The tree climbers companion
2. Watch basic portawrap videos online
3. Get on craigslist, and help an arborist. Gain some experience. Reflect and study what you feel weak on that would improve the safety of the climber.
4. Invest if you like it. Buy nice chainsaw pants and your own helmet. You get out of it what you put in. If you dedicate yourself to it, you will be rewarded. Good knowledgeable help in this industry is hard to find.
5. Learn from the small tree companies about their beginning. Hear their personal stories.
6. You can be creative starting out. If you work hard, and rent equipment (just what you really need like a dump trailer) and do everything else the hard way, you can start your own company. In 1-2 years doing this, you can have your own business with everything you need (dump truck and chipper).
7. Mentor. Finding your own helpers will be the biggest challenge at this point. Share knowledge. They may leave you, like you did, but it will make you safer the better they are.
8. Go to arborist competitions or events, even just to watch. Be thirsty for knowledge. There is a ton of gear, new and old, and many ways of doing things. Stay focused on the basics of what you need, but open to new things that increase efficiency.
9. Have fun, and be humble and safe.

Ah, thank you man! This was very encouraging to read!
I came to Barnes & Noble's nearby and unfortunately, they don't have the book. But I'll find it.
I got the helmet.
Just returned the chaps, but I'll get some new ones.
So I am one of those people trying to go greener. I've got a battery powered weed-whacker, leaf blower, mower, what do you think about a battery powered chainsaw? And do you have any specific brand recommendations? I love to research too and it looks like Stihl and Husqvarna are the leaders of the pack.

I'm definitely willing to work hard and do what I have to the hard way while looking for ways to increase efficiency (going through that right now with my business).

Thank you for the insight! If you could offer some more in regards to my chainsaw question, I'd appreciate it!

 

[Kdavis2685]

Ah, thank you man! This was very encouraging to read!
I came to Barnes & Noble's nearby and unfortunately, they don't have the book. But I'll find it.
I got the helmet.
Just returned the chaps, but I'll get some new ones.
So I am one of those people trying to go greener. I've got a battery powered weed-whacker, leaf blower, mower, what do you think about a battery powered chainsaw? And do you have any specific brand recommendations? I love to research too and it looks like Stihl and Husqvarna are the leaders of the pack.

I'm definitely willing to work hard and do what I have to the hard way while looking for ways to increase efficiency (going through that right now with my business).

Thank you for the insight! If you could offer some more in regards to my chainsaw question, I'd appreciate it!

Generally when you help, the company will provide all PPE (but it often sucks and is uncomfortable), so it's great you got your own helmet. I got a pair of Notch chainsaw pants on Treestuff or Sherrill Tree for like $150 on a sale with a coupon. Those were worth it, because I am not tempted to take them off. I recommend those pants, not too hot for the money.


They will also have all the saws. There's no need to put hard hours on your own equipment (but it's tempting if you like your own stuff).


Having your own depends on what you like to do. I am a stihl or echo guy in general. I like gas, but partly because I like hopping them up, except for a top handle saw I really prefer gas because of the added control of the torque. Electric is all torque all the time. It makes the saw pull or push harder if the chain speed isn't there, and they don't have the chain speed of gas. Other than that, i havent used an electric saw other than top handle. My hunch is husqvarna leads the electric pro saw market. Pick whatever you have dealer service nearby for (for parts or service). For gas, Stihl run like a hopped up echo out of the box, but echo while 30% cheaper are generally very durable, and with light modding (muffler and opening up exhaust and intake ports) will run about like a stihl pro saw. I would start with echo for the money. 4920 is a good small saw. 590 is a good medium or 1 saw plan. 7310 is a good med/large. 2511t cannot be beat for top handle if mildly ported (but it's a tiny cylinder so it's difficult). That being said, an ms250 is a little ripper stock (my favorite small saw). And the 462 is hard to beat for med/big - it is light, but expensive. I regularly throw anything from 28-36 on it and it does well. That new ms400.1 once available will be the best 1 saw plan and worth it unless you want to run 32-36 bars. All husky and stihl stuff is good for the most part, and echo is not that far behind.

 

[onemanfell91]

Yeah I'm probably gonna start off with just one.... unless I have a better than expected snow-blowing season! The 590 Timber's lookin like a good deal. 20"? 24? 18?
But once spring hits and more cash flows in, damn near all of my income goes right back into the business so I'll acquire quickly.

Now I'm sure it just comes down to preference, but are there any distinctive benefits one way or another when it come top vs rear handle?

 

[Kdavis2685]

Yeah I'm probably gonna start off with just one.... unless I have a better than expected snow-blowing season! The 590 Timber's lookin like a good deal. 20"? 24? 18?
But once spring hits and more cash flows in, damn near all of my income goes right back into the business so I'll acquire quickly.

Now I'm sure it just comes down to preference, but are there any distinctive benefits one way or another when it come top vs rear handle?

Top handle is just for climbing with. 90-95% of your cuts when climbing are with a top handle saw. They're lighter, and can be one handed, but you realistically max out at 14" bars on most of them. For anything at risk of splitting, you want a fast back cut and go rear handle regardless of size. You also use rear handle when you need a bigger bar than your top handle allows. Rear is for all ground work and primarily just bigger wood when climbing. Once you're down to the main stems, and begin to "chunk it down", you could be using either, but almost always finish with a rear handle due to stem size. Don't bother getting a top handle until you're climbing. I would do the 24 on the 590, but I'm in Idaho and we have fast growing (big) trees that are softer. I'm also a fan of skip tooth chains (less cutters, less strain on saw, can run a longer bar if underpowered - and less to sharpen). I go on the longer end of what the manufacturer recommends, and use a skin tooth on every saw med-large. I always have 2-3 chains for my primary bars sharp and ready at the beginning of every day cutting (I hand file them). You never know when you will hit some rock or nail in a tree, or the dirt for that matter. A second bar is good in case you get stuck. You can take the powerhead off and leave the bar in the tree, and then put on a new bar and chain and keep going.

I wasn't trying to discourage you from electric. I think its admirable for the reason you stated. I just know gas works, I know how to keep it working, and I enjoy it. A nasty loud 2 stroke is what gets me going. I love working on them and making them run well. But sawing is sawing, and it's fun either way.

Either way, get a saw, learn the hazards and techniques, and go practice. Cut firewood for friends and fun (and experience). The 590 or equivalent e saw would be a great size for that.

 

[onemanfell91]

Top handle is just for climbing with. 90-95% of your cuts when climbing are with a top handle saw. They're lighter, and can be one handed, but you realistically max out at 14" bars on most of them. For anything at risk of splitting, you want a fast back cut and go rear handle regardless of size. You also use rear handle when you need a bigger bar than your top handle allows. Rear is for all ground work and primarily just bigger wood when climbing. Once you're down to the main stems, and begin to "chunk it down", you could be using either, but almost always finish with a rear handle due to stem size. Don't bother getting a top handle until you're climbing. I would do the 24 on the 590, but I'm in Idaho and we have fast growing (big) trees that are softer. I'm also a fan of skip tooth chains (less cutters, less strain on saw, can run a longer bar if underpowered - and less to sharpen). I go on the longer end of what the manufacturer recommends, and use a skin tooth on every saw med-large. I always have 2-3 chains for my primary bars sharp and ready at the beginning of every day cutting (I hand file them). You never know when you will hit some rock or nail in a tree, or the dirt for that matter. A second bar is good in case you get stuck. You can take the powerhead off and leave the bar in the tree, and then put on a new bar and chain and keep going.

I wasn't trying to discourage you from electric. I think its admirable for the reason you stated. I just know gas works, I know how to keep it working, and I enjoy it. A nasty loud 2 stroke is what gets me going. I love working on them and making them run well. But sawing is sawing, and it's fun either way.

Either way, get a saw, learn the hazards and techniques, and go practice. Cut firewood for friends and fun (and experience). The 590 or equivalent e saw would be a great size for that.I

 

[onemanfell91]

That's how my Ego got stuck, a nail in the tree! And I was unprepared.

Honestly, I said to myself..."Well, that answers my 'do I risk going battery chainsaw?" question. Figured I'd ask some professionals though. I feel you though, I love revvin the gas and I love that classic smell. It was nice while it lasted as I cut out my Ego with a 18" Remington 2 cycle...

In regards to climbing, any recommendations on spurs? I know I may be waiting to climb with a company...but like I said, I love climbing and I'm gonna get a lot of practice this winter.

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