Had an issue yesterday, take-down of an awkward dead-as-a nail Ash in a small garden. Tree was v.dangerous to leave standing. Upon inspection there was signs of bats using the tree. obviously the tree had to come down from a safety perspective, and the company had good £££'s on it. the climber confirmed that bats were using the tree, comes down and we discus the steps to take. I maintained that as the tree was dangerous it had to be reduced to the point where the bats would not disturbed, but the climber insists that the law states that they should not be disturbed in any way. I suggested we call English nature for their advice, adn tell the boss of the situation. Boss calls us "homosexual nature loving freaks" and get the tree down. Climber says if you want to break the law do it youself. English Nature say to take the tree down if it is too dangerous to leave upright, the bats will re-home. Imay have made this a bit long-winded but as a boss would you go by the letter of the law, or if you think that you can get away with it, just go for it! please try and be honest, rather than say what you want people to hear!
Bats in the UK
- Thread starter Big A
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SteveBullman
User Formerly known as stephenbullman
id personally be prepared to do it, but its not fair to ask someone else to break the law for you.
I've done takedowns of trees with bats (no laws protecting them here unless endangered). Since they're sleeping in the daytime, I put them in a duffel and then take them home and resease then there, as I have bathouses and they're welcome to move in.
Good to use an extra rope bag or something and release them in the right place. If there are a lot, do you have animal control companies who handle them? I think British nature whoever they are gave bad advice because there may be no good local habitat for them to re-home in. They could move into an attic or garage; a little more care would make bat fatalities less likely.
Good to use an extra rope bag or something and release them in the right place. If there are a lot, do you have animal control companies who handle them? I think British nature whoever they are gave bad advice because there may be no good local habitat for them to re-home in. They could move into an attic or garage; a little more care would make bat fatalities less likely.
ROLLACOSTA
Addicted to ArboristSite
I would have left the job ,and sort proper legal advice on the matter
Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
Dont know what sort of bats they are but if they were the type we have here I would've just started working and the bats would have nicked off.
If there's birds in a tree do you stop?
Over here the law protects pretty much all wildlife but with birds it's protection for their nests if they have eggs or chicks.
No eggs or chicks, go for it.
I'd say same for bats, ours will fly during day if they have to.
If there's birds in a tree do you stop?
Over here the law protects pretty much all wildlife but with birds it's protection for their nests if they have eggs or chicks.
No eggs or chicks, go for it.
I'd say same for bats, ours will fly during day if they have to.
Mr_Brushcutter
ArboristSite Operative
All our bats are protected under the Wildlife and countryside act as well as the right of way act. Desturbing them is an offence as is desturbing a badger set- don't think you can work within 15m with heavy equipment of one.
As for doing the job i'd go and get the legal advice on what to do from English nature and local tree officer. Trees act as homes for bats ranging from places to rase you to nests for solitary bats. Theres some 17 species of bat here.
From a legal point of veiw it destroying bat roosts can incur a fine of £5000 per animal. Possability of conferscation of equipment used in the job and/or a castodial sentence.
So i would do the job not for the risks legally- also think of the bad publicity that would hit you harder than the fines.
As for doing the job i'd go and get the legal advice on what to do from English nature and local tree officer. Trees act as homes for bats ranging from places to rase you to nests for solitary bats. Theres some 17 species of bat here.
From a legal point of veiw it destroying bat roosts can incur a fine of £5000 per animal. Possability of conferscation of equipment used in the job and/or a castodial sentence.
So i would do the job not for the risks legally- also think of the bad publicity that would hit you harder than the fines.
Your right mate they are all protected, as are their roosts, whether or not they are in residence, the issue here is a dangerous dead tree in a small garden that aint going to improve by leaving. We all know what the law says, I just wonder how many bosses or workers are willing to "bend" rules when they think no-ones going to be any the wiser. When I got back the boss in question was pi$$ed right off over some "unnecessary" hassle. Personally I thought my call was correct, make the tree as safe as possible without upsetting the bats. The climber, whose decision and the responsibility lay with, rightly called English Nature for their advice, and was told that as a H&S issue, that took precedence over the bats, but do not injure or harm them in any way! As a P.R. thingy, I think that the clients were pleased to think that we cared enough to sort it out.jamie said:
iain
ArboristSite Operative
All bats and their roosts are protected under the Wildlife and Countryside Act (Schedule 5), 1981
(as amended) and are also included in Schedule 2 of the Conservation Regulations, 1994.
The roost is protected even if the bats are not present at the time. If bats are found or a roost, is suspected the relevant statutory nature conservation organisation should be contacted immediately.
The Conservation (Natural Habitats & c.) Regulations 1994 implement EC Directive 92/43/EEC, known as The Habitats Directive. This has been law since 1994 and makes it an offence deliberately to kill, capture, or disturb a European Protected Species
so as the boss !
even though liability may rest with the contractor, should the questioned tree fail !
the authorities would be hard pushed to find, that you were acting negligently, should you leave it standing whilst advise is sought. trees dont naturally deteriorate over night to the point of failure,
dependant on your hazard assesment a site visit from english nature and the h&s exec should be demanded asap
as it is with much else in life, its pretty much down to cold hard cash
options
1 sod the bats !!! get the money
2 stop the job ! , get the boffins in , charge the customer anyway, coz they should have known they'd got bats,
3 stop the job, do the boffin thing , agree a plan to resolve the saftey issue & the bat problem , then do the job + add a bit for the arse ache
me i go with 3
(as amended) and are also included in Schedule 2 of the Conservation Regulations, 1994.
The roost is protected even if the bats are not present at the time. If bats are found or a roost, is suspected the relevant statutory nature conservation organisation should be contacted immediately.
The Conservation (Natural Habitats & c.) Regulations 1994 implement EC Directive 92/43/EEC, known as The Habitats Directive. This has been law since 1994 and makes it an offence deliberately to kill, capture, or disturb a European Protected Species
so as the boss !
even though liability may rest with the contractor, should the questioned tree fail !
the authorities would be hard pushed to find, that you were acting negligently, should you leave it standing whilst advise is sought. trees dont naturally deteriorate over night to the point of failure,
dependant on your hazard assesment a site visit from english nature and the h&s exec should be demanded asap
as it is with much else in life, its pretty much down to cold hard cash
options
1 sod the bats !!! get the money
2 stop the job ! , get the boffins in , charge the customer anyway, coz they should have known they'd got bats,
3 stop the job, do the boffin thing , agree a plan to resolve the saftey issue & the bat problem , then do the job + add a bit for the arse ache
me i go with 3
Ok as a boss you've brought in me and another subbie in specifically to take-down this dodgy tree, having previously inspected and priced it up, missed the bats. Would you:
1) Tell us to get it down any way.
2) Tell us to stop work and sort the problem yourself.
3) Tell us to f*** off and get someone else to do the job.
4) Tell us to stop work and pay us any way as its your own over-sight?
1) Tell us to get it down any way.
2) Tell us to stop work and sort the problem yourself.
3) Tell us to f*** off and get someone else to do the job.
4) Tell us to stop work and pay us any way as its your own over-sight?
Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
Well, by them tough rules I would not proceed and do the right thing.
This is where you have to be vigilant when quoting and note these things on your bid.
Over here occasionally we have to wait for chicks to fledge off and then do the job, but protection on roosting even if not there means extra caution.
This is where you have to be vigilant when quoting and note these things on your bid.
Over here occasionally we have to wait for chicks to fledge off and then do the job, but protection on roosting even if not there means extra caution.
iain
ArboristSite Operative
4 exept i'd move you on to another job so that, the day wasn't a total loss
ROLLACOSTA
Addicted to ArboristSite
1,throw bats into chipper [[huh what bats]
2,keep gob shut [don't blab down the pub]
3,problem solved !!! [we all earned a day$$$ pay]
2,keep gob shut [don't blab down the pub]
3,problem solved !!! [we all earned a day$$$ pay]
We have in the Netherlands a flora and fauna law that protects the environment. It says that all listed species, animals, trees, plants, fish etc, are protected and so their habitat. Every work done effecting that habitat and directly the life of the species are forbidden. Only with special permission, with no other option to lessen the damage, its allowed to disturb the habitat or remove/kill trees/plants/animals that are listed. Sometimes its a hard thing because species from that 'red' endangered list are used to prevent developments and regular work by environment protecting groups. Like specific fungus or moss or bugs/crud living on trees, in ponds or even in industrial zones on walls. The problem is i don't know every specific freaking listed species and don't even look what kind off moss is growing on the bark. I was once tapped on my fingers by some 'green' people that the trees i cut had 'red' listed moss growing on them. I was lucky that they didn't make work of it and i left the logs upright for their convenience so the moss could (maybe) jump (by spurs)over to the surrounding trees. These days i am involved with nature care in my area and am aware of the locations with those protected species. Its a good thing so i can anticipate now when we do work here, its also prevent us from being called hacks not looking after the environment when cutting trees or doing other work.
Acer
ArboristSite Operative
Big A said:
I've never come across bats, but have arrived at a job to find nesting birds. I've always ended up on option 4. Customer is paying to have the tree down, and won't pay until then. Employee knows CWA, so even if I wanted to kick the bird out, there's a chance he'd report me..of course he wants his day's pay, and knows that he's going to have an early finish because we can't carry on. Only person not getting paid for the day = me.
Thor's Hammer
ArboristSite Guru
Make Bat soup.
Thor's Hammer
ArboristSite Guru
Or Bat on toast?
Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
Here's a picture of our bats ... is this what yours are like?
