Battery saws and big wood

[Franny K]

Brushed motors are archaic. The brushes add resistance. Whether you can see brush arcing or not, it's consuming power, robbing it from the motor, making more heat, and killing your run time. Most quality batteries, ie Milwaukee, have onboard power management to prevent overloading and as previous mentioned "cut out" when that threshold is exceeded. That's saving your $$$ investment.

The statement I made you replied to was from observation using two double battery Makita chainsaws. Same batteries.

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

Only battery saw I know that takes a 20" is a Stihl MSA 300. They compare it to 261 50cc saw.

I bet it cost a real pretty penny too.

From stihl website = STIHL's most powerful cordless chainsaw, designed for demanding professional use. Three available operating modes enable optimum battery efficiency across a range of applications such as felling, delimbing and cutting to length. Highly ergonomic and comfortable to use over longer periods of work thanks to a compact, balanced design and the STIHL anti-vibration system. The LED display allows for intuitive operation, giving the user notifications on oil level, chain brake position and power setting. Mounting point for the STIHL Smart Connector 2 A on the power tool housing. Other features include integrated cooling air filters, captive nut on the sprocket cover, an adjustable oil pump and .325" – RS Pro saw chain for excellent cutting performance.

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

 

[anlrolfe]

When the average Joe sees a battery tool instead of Vroom, Vroom engine they'll think fluffy bunnies and unicorns and think it's safe.
WRONG...
Maybe on the safety side dynamic braking coupled with chain brakes will aid in safety

 

[Philbert]

Lots of factors: volts, amps, torque, speed, battery management, etc. Easy to focus on one or more of these, rather than how the saw cuts. Try the saw, if you can. Otherwise, sort through the reviews and comments.

36V (sometimes called ‘40V’) and above started a whole new class of battery-powered saws. Some manufacturers added more cells to their battery packs (multiples of 3.6 volts, often rounded up) to make them sound more powerful.

But all ‘lithium-ion’ batteries are not the same either. Quality matters, as well as actual performance.

Philbert

 

[Franny K]

2:09 3kw of electric power=4 horsepower

2:40 air filter don't say if that is for the battery and the motor and the electronics.

5:15 looks like a rim drive perhaps the mini spline like the ms261? if so you could run 3/8lp, .325, and 3/8

3003 mount bar as it says early on same bar as the ms261. Have Stihl even imported or made available bars for the .325 RS pro code 3690 chain in USA yet? The chain loops I have are for the Husqvarna drive link counts.

10:54 the bars are not the same so the whole comparison should be questioned. To do it right change both the bar and chain back and forth. Kind of a shame considering all the time to be spent by viewers. 11:19 look at the finish of the two cuts.

11:47 not saw related but would a goat choose to eat the bark off like that with the grass in the background as an option?

15:15 invest

For the size of the battery that is impressive. Stihl ap500 337 watt hours 6 minutes 44 seconds at 4 horsepower by my methods of computation. That is an 8.9c discharge rate. Some cells are rated to 10 c discharge but not close to that on the recharge side.

 

[SteveH]

What make battery saw?
I have a MSA220 and a 540xp with 16” bars. I like them both but would like an 18” bar.

This is a Greenworks I saw at Costco on sale last month and decided to get it and see what was what. Can always return with Costco. Had never heard of that brand, but turns out so far the saw is doing a good job. Time will tell whether it holds up. Brother-in-law has a Greenworks he's been using three years, couple cords a year, and so far no issues with his.

 

[OM617YOTA]

My 80v Kobalt with an 18" bar will cut anything a gas saw with an 18" bar will cut, just slower. With four batteries, it was enough to cut a full load of maple for my little Toyota pickup. It could be quite useful for storm cleanup after the fact, after power is restored and it's easy to recharge batteries.

Primary cleanup saw, clearing roads and such, immediately after or during a storm, without a way to recharge batteries, not a chance.

 

[JustPlainJeff]

All this is covered in the many battery saw threads. Current models compete with 30 to 50cc saws. As with those gas saws, you can cut most anything, if you are patient. But they might not be the best choice for a big task.

Most battery saws have an overload cut out, in addition to a chain brake.

Don’t confuse voltage with power. 80V is not necessarily more powerful than 40V.

As @GrizG notes, I have cleaned storm damage with corded electric saws, one power was restored.

I have cut a full face cord of green, silver maple with one battery, but battery capacity varies (measured in Watt-Hours).

Philbert

Not to "single you out", but you sound like you comprehend batteries better than I do, so I figured I'd ask you. What exactly does Amp Hour mean? Like when I see that on my Milwaukee cordless tools. I know the higher the Amp Hours on the battery, the more it costs, and the better it's supposed to be, but that's about the limit of my comprehension on this "new" battery stuff.

My 80v Kobalt with an 18" bar will cut anything a gas saw with an 18" bar will cut, just slower. With four batteries, it was enough to cut a full load of maple for my little Toyota pickup. It could be quite useful for storm cleanup after the fact, after power is restored and it's easy to recharge batteries.

Primary cleanup saw, clearing roads and such, immediately after or during a storm, without a way to recharge batteries, not a chance.

Just curious, how many Ducketts do you have invested in the saw and four batteries? Also, any idea how many charges you can get per battery before having to replace it? I'm curious what the cost comparison is from an apples to apples perspective, and how that would compare say 5 years down the road, if you've had to replace all of the batteries and lay out more cash or not. I just know that for my drone, I've got 3 batteries, and according to the manufacturer, they're supposed to last for about 40 full charges. The batteries also cost about 110.00 each.

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

2:09 3kw of electric power=4 horsepower

2:40 air filter don't say if that is for the battery and the motor and the electronics.

5:15 looks like a rim drive perhaps the mini spline like the ms261? if so you could run 3/8lp, .325, and 3/8

3003 mount bar as it says early on same bar as the ms261. Have Stihl even imported or made available bars for the .325 RS pro code 3690 chain in USA yet? The chain loops I have are for the Husqvarna drive link counts.

10:54 the bars are not the same so the whole comparison should be questioned. To do it right change both the bar and chain back and forth. Kind of a shame considering all the time to be spent by viewers. 11:19 look at the finish of the two cuts.

11:47 not saw related but would a goat choose to eat the bark off like that with the grass in the background as an option?

15:15 invest

For the size of the battery that is impressive. Stihl ap500 337 watt hours 6 minutes 44 seconds at 4 horsepower by my methods of computation. That is an 8.9c discharge rate. Some cells are rated to 10 c discharge but not close to that on the recharge side.

Go tell the folks making video. I could care less.

I just shared the video found on the 300. Also proves you didnt read the stihl info shared from their website in post above video.

 

[Franny K]

Go tell the folks making video. I could care less.

I just shared the video found on the 300. Also proves you didnt read the stihl info shared from their website in post above video.

I quoted you to indicate what I was talking about.

The 337 watt hours comes from the Stihl UK site that goes kind of dark shaded unless you accept their cookies and terms.

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

I quoted you to indicate what I was talking about.

The 337 watt hours comes from the Stihl UK site that goes kind of dark shaded unless you accept their cookies and terms.

Talking about this. = integrated cooling air filters.


Straight from stihl website on your complaining was before video posted.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Just curious, how many Ducketts do you have invested in the saw and four batteries? Also, any idea how many charges you can get per battery before having to replace it? I'm curious what the cost comparison is from an apples to apples perspective, and how that would compare say 5 years down the road, if you've had to replace all of the batteries and lay out more cash or not. I just know that for my drone, I've got 3 batteries, and according to the manufacturer, they're supposed to last for about 40 full charges. The batteries also cost about 110.00 each.

Saw itself was $300 I think, with a charger and a battery. I was well invested in Kobalt 80v stuff before buying the saw; I had the mower, string trimmer already. Buying these with chargers and batteries gave me three chargers and four batteries. I also bought the leaf blower later, but that was tool only.

Lithium batteries have somewhat variable "empty" and "full" points, depending on intended usage. If you run conservative charge and discharge levels, your battery will last lots more cycles, but it won't hold as much power for the same size and weight. Alternatively, you can burn a battery down hard, run to extreme charge and discharge levels, store a tremendous amount of power in a small and light battery, at the expense of hugely reduced cycle life. A drone will be optimized for small size and weight and will run it's batteries hard. My solar power system, I'll hold the batteries between 25% and 75% state of charge, and will expect to get 10,000+ cycles before they're down to only holding 80% of their rated capacity.

Power tool batteries will come in between those two extremes. Not ran as hard as a drone, but not sacrificing size and weight for long cycle life. I have six years on my Kobalt batteries, and am just now starting to notice that they don't last as long as they used to.

 

[Mad Professor]

Logosol has two 440V 3 phase chainsaws, 12 and 18 hp, for milling. But no handles and big one is 40 kg.

But I bet I'd rip better than a 090 or 166!

 

[Philbert]

This is a Greenworks I saw at Costco on sale last month and decided to get it and see what was what.

Greenworks has been around several years, and has a few different battery platforms (different voltages). I believe that they also make some private label tools, including Lowes’ ‘Kobalt’ saws, although, the batteries are not directly interchangeable.

Primary cleanup saw, clearing roads and such, immediately after or during a storm, without a way to recharge batteries, not a chance.

I have used mine (chainsaws, pole saws, etc.) for lots of storm cleanup work, alongside my gas saws. I like them, especially, when getting started (‘grab-and-go’), and for some smaller tasks.

Multiple batteries. Can usually charge them at night, along with contractor type battery tools. Can also charge off vehicle, with inverter, while driving, or off generators, which are usually running at disaster sites.

What exactly does Amp Hour mean?

Basically, how long a battery will produce power at a given voltage.

Lithium-ion batteries typically produce 3.6 Volts per cell. Solder 5 cells together in series and get an 18V battery pack. 10 and get 36V (these numbers should sound familiar). Larger or higher capacity cells will produce that voltage for a longer period of time, or you can solder several cells in parallel to do this.

Battery packs are rated in Amp-hours, but this can be confusing. I have some Oregon ‘40V’ batteries and some Redback ’120V’ batteries.

6Ahr @ 40V = 240 Watt-hours.
2Ahr @ 120V = 240 Watt-hours.

The 6Ahr battery sounds ‘larger’/ higher capacity, but is just configured differently. The TSA uses Watt-hours to determine how many batteries you can carry on (none allowed in checked luggage)..

How long each saw will cut depends on speed, torque, efficiency, etc. But for a given saw, a battery pack with a higher Ahr rating will run longer.

As noted in one of the videos above, some higher end battery saws require higher end batteries for optimum performance. This may be due to the cells used, as well as to circuitry that controls battery charging, discharging, heat, etc.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Also, any idea how many charges you can get per battery before having to replace it? I'm curious what the cost comparison is from an apples to apples perspective, and how that would compare say 5 years down the road, . . .

Battery quality is very important. I often say that “Batteries are half the tool“. Including the price!

I have Oregon batteries that are over 10 years old, and still hold a charge. They probably do not hold as much charge as when new, but I really have no way to measure that objectively. Every Oregon battery I received still works.

My experience with Redback batteries has not as good. I have had an over 30% failure rate with those batteries. Some within the first few months. Others still work after 5 years.

My understanding is that, if one cell in the battery pack ‘goes bad’, it will prevent charging of the other cells.

But Redback is out of business (presumably due to cash flow or business issues, rather than product quality) and I cannot buy replacement batteries. They were not a big enough company for ‘aftermarket’ batteries to be produced. Places like ‘Batteries Plus’ will not touch Li-ion batteries, and I discourage people from opening up their battery packs and trying this on their own, due to fire (and other ?) risks.

Some guys want their tools to last forever. Some write them off after one job. Different perspectives.

Philbert

 

[Pioneer]

Battery power chainsaws are my first pick for the smaller jobs, or for limbing a downed tree. There is a shift in popularity to using them in climbing as well, they are just more convenient for a number of jobs. As far as big wood goes, my first choice would still be gas powered simply for the duration. There are electric saws out there now that will compete with gas for power, but they cost an arm and a leg, and still can't compete in duration unless you invest a lot of money in battery packs.

 

[Sidecarflip]

Like with any saw, sharp chain is the way to go. I find the battery saw needs the sharp chain even more than the gas saws. Don't know why.....

Most likely because cordless electric saws rotate the chain loop at a much lower RPM than a similar gas powered saw so they will cut slower even with a sharp loop. That and the fact that drawing maximum amps from any battery saw will cause the battery to overheat and the internal circuitry will shut it down until the battery cools down.

 

[echomeister]

I'd be onboard if there was a series of standard batteries. That way you have options if your saws maker decides to quit.

 

[singinwoodwackr]

I have a friend that has a lot of big tree storm damage and as he has issues with gas chainsaws, he is thinking of a good battery powered one. Are there electric saws available that would handle a 20" bar in hardwood and what voltage would be required? How about cutting time on one battery? What happens to an electric saw when you overload it and drag the chain speed way down?

not realistically, no. Electrics are meant for small wood, period.
my .02