Becoming and Arborist

[bigshea13]

climbing and cutting is all that makes an arborist, then we are just loggers who get vertical. When I climb tomorrow I'll enjoy it, but it will not define me or my work. Way too narrow.




dont misconstrue what ive wrote. being able to climb and cut by no means defines and arborist. but if you cant do either your not an arborist your nothing but a localized taxonomist. for the majority of the time the saw and the saddle define tree care. eventually down the road if its being properly maintained the tree will be pruned/cabled/inspected/collected from ect. with your butt always on the ground it hard to see trew the leaves.
how do you professionally treat a tree when you cant even get up there to inspect it. i guess those arborists that doent climb or cut think they are <for lack of better terms,"ABOVE" all that. keep handing out certs to lazy bastards and the animosity between arborists and line clearence workers as well as the rest of the industry will rage on.

 

[bigshea13]

You hire a different person(CA)? pertaining to the job at hand, sounds like a general contractor to me, not an Arborist!!

I read your posts & it seems to me all you care about is managing "the right person" cause you yourself are unable to perform the tasks that people unknowingly hire you for!! for people like you there should be a "Lab Arborist" certification, for people that dont wanna get dirty or just dont know how, what a shame!! Ill have to tell my carpenter buddies, you dont have to nail anything!!! just delegate some authority, "manage someone to nail"


Arborists that cant or never did climb that think they are true Arborist, Now this is an exageration

when someone hires an Arborist the thought is they are getting the whole package, the best the industry has to offer!! In a way I consider it fraud to advertise the Arborist logo when you are unable to perform a part of what should be & used to be a requirement. I bet if they put a Non-climber designation before the Arborist title people would find no need for you to serve them in the tree care field!!

If your whole thing is theres more to trees than climbing, your right! but become a Horticulturist, Biologist or a Botanist not an Arborist! If you want to manage people get a Degree in business Management, my thoughts are you are the ones who dont understand, you want your "Title" as an Arborist to cover & include these fields, because you couldnt obtain the proper Title.

LXT.................

:rockn:
well put

 

[lxt]

Wow, you do have the worst case of climbermassiveegoitis I have ever seen!

Don't put down someone elses credentials EVER, it is just poor form. If you got yourself certified and then decided to crap on it, that would be a different story...........

I dont think I put anyone down!! where is this mentioned in my post, I am relaying personal experiences with CA`s that I had. Sorry to offend!!

I call it as I see it, or how it has been done to me!! may not hold true for others as I truely hope it doesnt!! But in the same sense I wonder how others feel in regards as to how Arborists treat them? or how the horticulturist feels about a CA thinking they are on a similar level, or the Botanist or the Biologist, maybe we should ask them?

Maybe they have a case of Arboristmassiveegotitis, which may have prompted the attitude I currently have toward them, When the ISA`s guidelines for CA`s change then so will my attitude cause im betting that when CA`s have to climb, many will go away & those that dont will have a better understanding!!

funny thing is I dont need a CA!!, they need me & I need my team!! if that CA wants to join in climb, cut, chip, rake, load wood, run ropes, etc... the way it should be or atleast having done this!! then good for him & I respect that........That is an Arborist not in & of itself but in the fact they are performing what it is their title stands for or part thereof!!

LXT..................

 

[lxt]

A living tree is a symphony, and it needs many musicians to keep its instruments in harmony. Climbing and cutting are like the strings; essential, but so are the woodwinds and the percussion. And without the conductor, music would not happen.

:rockn:

Same with rock music--the lead guitarist might think he's king, but without bass and drums he would go nowhere. And without a songwriter, he'd have nothing to play.

You bring up music Treeseer so Ill give you a true example & how it relates to our industry:

I am a Guitarist, I have played in bands & Instruct part time, I dont tell fellow musicians how to play their instrument of choice, funny how in music for one to get their degree they have to be proficient in piano, woodwinds, brass or voice. If they cant perform Proficiently all these things they dont get a degree!! according to your thought process, I really wouldnt even have to play an instrument to be an instructor or a musician!

The key is Proficient, no ones saying they have to master the climbing aspects just have to show ability to do it, It would atleast be nice to know the CA could perform an aerial rescue if need be!!

LXT....................

 

[ropensaddle]

So true. However, my two predecessors were not as "hands on" as I am. I have been at this job for longer than both of them put together.

I attribute my success to the respect of the people who work for me.
At any given time I will show up at a worksite with my climbing gear and proceed to prove why I DESERVE to be the boss (because I will never ask a subordinate to do something I won't do myself).

All this fighting back and forth is useless, If you are complaining about someone elses credentials or skills (or lack thereof) you have unresolved issues with yourself IMHO................

That is what most have been saying all along, if you are boss over
climbers you should have or still climb. Maybe respect is not needed
to manage who knows,but I would not care to manage without it!
It is the astronaut telling the rocket scientist how to build rockets!

 

[treeseer]

Good points OTG!

Here's a climber certification, for those who are climbers. I got it a few months ago; it was a good way to document my climbing ability, to help my earning potential. The below is from this page: http://www.isa-arbor.com/certification/treeworker.aspx

Passing the knowledge portion of this test is a good prep for CA. The cost was negligible compared to the value of the experience and the certification. If the original poster is still around--consider it.

ISA Certified Tree Worker/ Climber Specialist

These credential holders have a minimum of 18 months experience professionally climbing trees in a safe and efficient manner to perform tree care. They have knowledge in the major aspects involved in tree care including, pruning, removal, cabling and safety. They must pass a knowledge exam and a skills exam conducted by trained evaluators.

If you are getting ready to test for the Certified Tree Worker Exam and have participated in the ISA Chapter or International Tree Climbing Championships, you may waive the work climb portion of the skills exam for the ISA Certified Tree Worker/ Climber Specialist (CTW/CS) certification exam providing you satisfy all of the other requirements. Should you have any questions regarding the Skills waiver please contact the ISA Certification Department. Please make sure the form is filled out completely and signed by the ISA certified Tree Worker Evaluator before submittal. Click here to download a copy of the Skills Exam Waiver Form.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

You hire a different person(CA)? pertaining to the job at hand, sounds like a general contractor to me, not an Arborist!!

I read your posts & it seems to me all you care about is managing "the right person" cause you yourself are unable to perform the tasks that people unknowingly hire you for!! for people like you there should be a "Lab Arborist" certification, for people that dont wanna get dirty or just dont know how, what a shame!!

You probably think that by not searching beyond the fragment that you read, and your opinion of it.

Basically, it's your set limit of experience and opinion from a remote vantage point, set as an anti-thesis to the references in my files. It's just that those references had a first-hand vantage point.

If you don't think I get into the work here ... here's a few scraps of images in following replies.

It takes getting covered with algea and saw dust to hand prune trees like this 50 foot wide Mt. Fuji every year.

There will be several images following, because this thread is "becoming an arborist" - and these images will show how an arborist can choose to gain mastery of not just arboriculture, but add the full range of the green trades to the day by day work.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

You hire a different person(CA)? pertaining to the job at hand, sounds like a general contractor to me, not an Arborist!!

I read your posts & it seems to me all you care about is managing "the right person" cause you yourself are unable to perform the tasks that people unknowingly hire you for!! for people like you there should be a "Lab Arborist" certification, for people that dont wanna get dirty or just dont know how, what a shame!!

Maybe it's a figment of several people's imagination that I got filthy spending several hours trying to renovate this abused walnut tree?

 

[M.D. Vaden]

You hire a different person(CA)? pertaining to the job at hand, sounds like a general contractor to me, not an Arborist!!

I read your posts & it seems to me all you care about is managing "the right person" cause you yourself are unable to perform the tasks that people unknowingly hire you for!! for people like you there should be a "Lab Arborist" certification, for people that dont wanna get dirty or just dont know how, what a shame!!

lxt

Are you one of the few who believes that the upper image can become the lower image over 2 six hour days without dirt and sweat?

 

[ropensaddle]

Maybe it's a figment of several people's imagination that I got filthy spending several hours trying to renovate this abused walnut tree?

Abused is right good grief that tree may be better off
cut still loads of weak attachments! Whats the targets?

 

[M.D. Vaden]

Abused is right good grief that tree may be better off
cut still loads of weak attachments! Whats the targets?

Had to give it some time, but after a couple of years, they heard I was up in Portland for a week, and got a call in on my last day, so I stayed another night.

Here is round #2 to give their garden a bit more light, and clear it from the gutter and roof. Light to moderate this time.

It's finally starting to take shape. They plan to build a single level garage next to the two story house, so I got the canopy up enough that no contractors need to put their hands on it.

 

[ropensaddle]

Had to give it some time, but after a couple of years, they heard I was up in Portland for a week, and got a call in on my last day, so I stayed another night.

Here is round #2 to give their garden a bit more light, and clear it from the gutter and roof. Light to moderate this time.

It's finally starting to take shape. They plan to build a single level garage next to the two story house, so I got the canopy up enough that no contractors need to put their hands on it.

Good work however you would not call the structure weak?
I know you did not have much to work with and did a fine
job I admit! Are there any cables placed for crown support?

 

[M.D. Vaden]

You hire a different person(CA)? pertaining to the job at hand, sounds like a general contractor to me, not an Arborist!!

I read your posts & it seems to me all you care about is managing "the right person" cause you yourself are unable to perform the tasks that people unknowingly hire you for!! for people like you there should be a "Lab Arborist" certification, for people that dont wanna get dirty or just dont know how, what a shame!!

Now, we can't assume that this water feature dug itself, and placed its own basalt boulders in place.

Basically, I'm posting these images to contrast with your statement.

This is the tip of the iceberg - both size and difficulty.

Now the trees and landscape photos posted were my own handywork.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

Good work however you would not call the structure weak?
I know you did not have much to work with and did a fine
job I admit! Are there any cables placed for crown support?

The basic central trunk area is not weak. It's more like there are some weak areas that need work, but it's probably going to take 2 more prunings over 4 more years to eradicate the remaining boo-boos.

I had just discarded an image of a view looking down between the leaders from above, because it was not clear enough for a slideshow, but the middle area between is a broad widely curved valley, about 36" wide.

So basically, the hidden central circular crotch is 36" wide. Most of the unions between the leaders have "U" shapes between them. So amazingly, other than a handful of small "V"s here and there, its a really stout "sucker".

There is like the huge bowl shape of solid wood tissue in the center concave area. It's not at all like some trunks we've seen where a tree was stubbed and water sprouts shot-out from a stub-trunk. In other words, the attachment of the main leaders is not like what you saw on some limbs where they were previouly topped. But the only way to see it, is to be on a ladder or in the tree looking down inside.

No wonder someone was tempted to put a tree house inside there. It's like a concave platform in the middle. There is probably room for 10 men to stand packed together on the central union inside.

 

[ropensaddle]

The basic central trunk area is not weak. It's more like there are some weak areas that need work, but it's probably going to take 2 more prunings over 4 more years to eradicate the remaining boo-boos.

I had just discarded an image of a view looking down between the leaders from above, because it was not clear enough for a slideshow, but the middle area between is a broad widely curved valley, about 36" wide.

So basically, the hidden central circular crotch is 36" wide. Most of the unions between the leaders have "U" shapes between them. So amazingly, other than a handful of small "V"s here and there, its a really stout "sucker".

There is like the huge bowl shape of solid wood tissue in the center concave area. It's not at all like some trunks we've seen where a tree was stubbed and water sprouts shot-out from a stub-trunk. In other words, the attachment of the main leaders is not like what you saw on some limbs where they were previouly topped. But the only way to see it, is to be on a ladder or in the tree looking down inside.

No wonder someone was tempted to put a tree house inside there. It's like a concave platform in the middle. There is probably room for 10 men to stand packed together on the central union inside.

I did notice it seemed to have been topped twice they sure
wanted it low Anyway good work on the trees and
landscape!

 

[M.D. Vaden]

I did notice it seemed to have been topped twice they sure
wanted it low

Yeah... there's no way of hiding their hanky panky on that tree.

Hey... I'm hoping ltx pops in here again, because I want to hear his reasoning for this quote I've repeated several times.

You hire a different person(CA)? pertaining to the job at hand, sounds like a general contractor to me, not an Arborist!!

I read your posts & it seems to me all you care about is managing "the right person" cause you yourself are unable to perform the tasks that people unknowingly hire you for!! for people like you there should be a "Lab Arborist" certification, for people that dont wanna get dirty or just dont know how, what a shame!!

ltx... these are for you

What odds should we place, that the image above, became the image below in 5 days, without any dirt and sweat?

And that's not the same lawn by the way. Stripped bare to the bone, and rebuilt in 5 days.

The reason for the pruning and landscape photos, is two-fold. One was your opinion expressed in the quoted statement. The other, is to provide one glimpse at a level of arboriculture coupled with landscape architecture and landscape contracting, where the same professional manages and "hands-on" performs the entire range of green industry trades.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

You hire a different person(CA)? pertaining to the job at hand, sounds like a general contractor to me, not an Arborist!!

I read your posts & it seems to me all you care about is managing "the right person" cause you yourself are unable to perform the tasks that people unknowingly hire you for!! for people like you there should be a "Lab Arborist" certification, for people that dont wanna get dirty or just dont know how, what a shame!!

Now this little pest is tougher than any big tree I've worked on.

This Engineers "$9000 pine" (1980s cost) is a topiary above a small fountain, with a 14' drop-off behind the rail, and no place for an orchard ladder.

The previous replies and images indicate that an arborist may choose to expand their skill and knowledge beyond the limits of tree pruning and removals.

 

[OTG BOSTON]

Nice pics Mario

These certified/non-certified threads get old after a while, glad to have some nice pics to look at

 

[lxt]

Maybe it's a figment of several people's imagination that I got filthy spending several hours trying to renovate this abused walnut tree?

So you personally renovated the tree? If so.... I ask you, Is that not what you are suppose to do?

Most of the images Ive looked at are landscape scenario`s, Nice work!! but nothing out of the ordinary, overall nicely done!!

Look im not trying to be insultive here, but it insults me & many others to know someone is a CA & unable to do their job fully!! Did you read any of my posts? the whole post instead of fragments!!! answer those questions or rebutt those statements.

By the way websters definition of an Arborist is: a specialist in the care & maintenance of trees.

funny how it says nothing of managing!!, Now...Did you do all that work in those pictures or did you hire a landscape technician with crew? getting dirty doesnt mean working 1-2hrs till you sweat, then letting someone else take over(if this is the situation) Nor does it mean working here & there through out the summer & when you total up the hours they equal like 45 worked hours!!! thats boredom, thats being shamed, thats you thinking the guys will think you are something your not if you work a lil.

LXT..............

 

[lxt]

Yeah... there's no way of hiding their hanky panky on that tree.

Hey... I'm hoping ltx pops in here again, because I want to hear his reasoning for this quote I've repeated several times.



ltx... these are for you

What odds should we place, that the image above, became the image below in 5 days, without any dirt and sweat?

And that's not the same lawn by the way. Stripped bare to the bone, and rebuilt in 5 days.

The reason for the pruning and landscape photos, is two-fold. One was your opinion expressed in the quoted statement. The other, is to provide one glimpse at a level of arboriculture coupled with landscape architecture and landscape contracting, where the same professional manages and "hands-on" performs the entire range of green industry trades.

exactly what im talking about, the "entire range of the green Industry" as you put it!! it is broken into sections my man!! trees=arborculture!! therefore an arborist deals with trees(read above definition) & not grass!!

botanist`s, horticulturists, arborists, nurserymen/women, landscape technicians, etc... all have their place within the "green Industry" that is why there are many fields!!! If you are an Arborist what field do you serve? Again you want your certification to cover fields that you were unable to get Certified in or obtain a degree in.

The term manage as used by you arborists is misleading & falsely used!! you are to manage the Tree(s) regiment of care, maintenance, removal, prescribed treatment or a course of action involving tree(s).

How you think Manage refers to people when it truely refers to the overall aspects & care of trees just further shows your ignorance!! & you are adamate about Managing as are others, better get a reality check!!

If you wish to manage get a Business management Degree then hire the right people for the job cause that is what this title does, hence the Degree associated with it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The work you show is nice, but dont mis-construe what title it is that you hold! It is a specific title within a large field catering to a specific element within that field.....Trees

LXT................