Best way to sharpen for your 200t

[brandongunn2003]

I have a 200T I use exclusively for climbing. I am running Stihl 3/8 X .50 Low Profile. I have tried hand filing it. I have also tried grinding with my Silvey 510 round grinder at 25 degrees, rakers filed appropriately. I am just not getting the performance I want out of the Chain. Does any one use chisel chain, If so what machine do you file it with. Do any of the jedi masters have secrets they want to pass on.

Thanks

Brandon……..

 

[Pelorus]

I only ever clamp mine in the vise on the chipper fender and hand file it, then hit the rakers as needed.
High rakers make an otherwise sharp chain cut like a dog.

 

[Youngbuck20]

25 degrees? I thought they called for 30-35? Not sure how big of a difference 5-10 degrees makes but maybe try making your angle a little steeper.

 

[beastmaster]

Get rid of that low profile chain for one. I tryed it and it doesn't seem to cut aggressivly enough(I think thats how it was design to not cut.) I file all my saws and a lot of my friends saws by hand. They cut good. Make sure your doing it right. I know guys been using saw for 30 years and still can't sharpen a saw right.

 

[tree md]

I use semi chisel stihl chain and grind it at 25 degrees as well. My saw shop will not sell full chisel in that length because of the kickback potential with an arborist saw. I have two 200t's and use them exclusively in the air. I very rarely have to sharpen a chain. I only had to grind the chain on my older 200T one time in 5 years. Otherwise I hand file and I rarely have to do that because I never use it on the ground. I usually only have to touch it up with a file every 2 or 3 months. If you don't get your rakers filed correctly it can make it cut like a dog... Or worse, make it dangerous to use in the tree (read the thread "I took a chainsaw to the face").

 

[mcdc6]

35 and 80 is what stihl calls for grinding

 

[tree md]

35 and 80 is what stihl calls for grinding

The specs on my stihl chains as well as the chart for my grinder call for 25.

 

[deevo]

25 degrees? I thought they called for 30-35? Not sure how big of a difference 5-10 degrees makes but maybe try making your angle a little steeper.

Yep, go 30 degrees. Even says too on the stihl box. The oregon chain I use on all my other saws says to file at 25, but I do 30 my first sharpen. :msp_thumbsup:

 

[deevo]

I use semi chisel stihl chain and grind it at 25 degrees as well. My saw shop will not sell full chisel in that length because of the kickback potential with an arborist saw. I have two 200t's and use them exclusively in the air. I very rarely have to sharpen a chain. I only had to grind the chain on my older 200T one time in 5 years. Otherwise I hand file and I rarely have to do that because I never use it on the ground. I usually only have to touch it up with a file every 2 or 3 months. If you don't get your rakers filed correctly it can make it cut like a dog... Or worse, make it dangerous to use in the tree (read the thread "I took a chainsaw to the face").

Larry that's funny, i just ran out and checked my stihl chains I use for my 200t and they all say 30 degrees! lol!:msp_tongue:

 

[tree md]

b

I'll have to check mine. Not running out to the shop right now. I go mostly by the chart that came with my grinder. Some still chains call for 30, some 25 on my chart. My particular chains call for 25 on that chart. That being said, it doesn't hurt to grind them at a steeper degree. The first trick I ever learned from the old groundy I learned from was to file at a steeper angle to throw bigger chips. It doesn't hurt. I just like to keep mine in spec by the chart because they seem to last longer that way.

 

[2treeornot2tree]

I use full chisel chain on my 201t. I have had no problems. I sharpen all my chains to 25 degrees and they cut like a raped ape.

Certain types of wood like 25 degrees and some like 30 degrees.

 

[bootboy]

I hand file my LP chains at 30° and run oregon vxl or stihl ps3, it works very well for me. Just remember though that raker maintenance gets over looked.

 

[Naked Arborist]

I use lo pro most of the time on the ms200t's. I use 3/8",0.375 0.050 gauge only set at 30 degrees and 0.030 on the rakes when the chain is near new. Around 0.045 rakers on worn down cutters. 35 degrees on softer woods and 0.035 on the rakers. Around 0.050 on worn down cutters. I use Stihl lo pro and Oregon low pro. I use 3/8",0.375 square tooth full chisel half skip Oregon on large pines over 10" limbs or softwoods that need to come off fast for a horizontal drops. I use that same type of chain in full skip on hot days for live sappy pines. Never use anything but round filed. Most times if I use a grinder on any chains for the limbing saw ( witch is rare) they get touched up with a DDC file. I find that my cuts are clean, fast and efficient.

1/4", 0.325 and 0.043 gauge chains have no place in my plan. I think they all SUCK for tree work, load up chip too fast and make for a poor slow cut in general for any tree work. On top of that 0.043 gauge eats up sprockets. I think this is why Stihl promotes it as a "fast" cutting chain so they can sell more spurs and bars.

3/8 50 lo pro "real" kick-back chain is the only way to go IMHO.

Low kick-back chains are for beginners and new groundies.

 

[imagineero]

I use semi chisel stihl chain and grind it at 25 degrees as well. My saw shop will not sell full chisel in that length because of the kickback potential with an arborist saw. I have two 200t's and use them exclusively in the air. I very rarely have to sharpen a chain. I only had to grind the chain on my older 200T one time in 5 years. Otherwise I hand file and I rarely have to do that because I never use it on the ground. I usually only have to touch it up with a file every 2 or 3 months. If you don't get your rakers filed correctly it can make it cut like a dog... Or worse, make it dangerous to use in the tree (read the thread "I took a chainsaw to the face").

You're kidding, right? Touch it up with a file every 2 or 3 months? Do you only climb 2 or 3 times a year?

There are 4 key things with climbing saws;

1. Narrow kerf = less wood needs to be cut to get through the limb. 3/8" low pro is the way to go. Use the carlton stuff, the cutters are longer and narrower. Its the fastest chain out there.

2. forget safety chain. You won't be cutting anyhing.

3. Sharpen daily. Not once every 3 months. Angles are less important than shaprness, so long as all the teeth have the same angle, tooth length, and hook angle.

4. Most important is raker height. This is really critical on climbing saws especially. Read the BOBL raker height discussion here http://www.arboristsite.com/chain-sharpening/114624.htm this is the most importnt thing you will ever read. Spend $50 on a digital angle finder like a wixey or whatever. Set your rakers at 7 degrees. Even just doing your rakers a couple times with the DAF you will learn a lot. You will see what you have been doing wrong, and the first time you run your saw after doing the rakers this way your mind will be blown.

Shaun

 

[Pelorus]

I agree with what you posted Shaun, except for the digital angle finder thing. You can achieve excellent raker profiles just fine with your nekkid eyeball. It really doesn't have to be rocket science. I use a standard raker height guage just to get a benchmark of where things are at on a tooth on each side.

 

[TreeGuyHR]

I use lo pro most of the time on the ms200t's. I use 3/8",0.375 0.050 gauge only set at 30 degrees and 0.030 on the rakes when the chain is near new. Around 0.045 rakers on worn down cutters. 35 degrees on softer woods and 0.035 on the rakers. Around 0.050 on worn down cutters. I use Stihl lo pro and Oregon low pro. I use 3/8",0.375 square tooth full chisel half skip Oregon on large pines over 10" limbs or softwoods that need to come off fast for a horizontal drops. I use that same type of chain in full skip on hot days for live sappy pines. Never use anything but round filed. Most times if I use a grinder on any chains for the limbing saw ( witch is rare) they get touched up with a DDC file. I find that my cuts are clean, fast and efficient.

1/4", 0.325 and 0.043 gauge chains have no place in my plan. I think they all SUCK for tree work, load up chip too fast and make for a poor slow cut in general for any tree work. On top of that 0.043 gauge eats up sprockets. I think this is why Stihl promotes it as a "fast" cutting chain so they can sell more spurs and bars.

3/8 50 lo pro "real" kick-back chain is the only way to go IMHO.

Low kick-back chains are for beginners and new groundies.

I get confused by all those numbers -- and it doesn't help that the round-tooth grinder I bought (Carlton) came with a chart in teeny -tiny type that is unreadable for all the settings.

I'm going to copy your post and tape it to the wall!

 

[brandongunn2003]

I checked out that Thread. Super good info. Thanks again for all of the advice......

 

[imagineero]

I agree with what you posted Shaun, except for the digital angle finder thing. You can achieve excellent raker profiles just fine with your nekkid eyeball. It really doesn't have to be rocket science. I use a standard raker height guage just to get a benchmark of where things are at on a tooth on each side.

I'd say take the pepsi challenge on that one. I've tried most types of raker height guides out there; the FOP types, the stihl ones, the huski roller gauge. They're all ok, but not great. I've also tried using feeler gauges and a straight edge which is very time consuming and involves some math. The trouble with the gauges is that they aren't progressive; the rakers are going to get worse towards the end of the tooth life. The other problem is that most give you a squared topped raker. Square topped rakers are jittery/vibrate a lot in the cut. Triangle shaped rakers are bitey/grabby. A well rounded raker is smooth and will let you take the rakers lower than any other shape.

If you use a DAF then you can concentrate purely on raker shape. The DAF method is very consistent, and lets you get perfect rakers. Try it and you'll be shocked at the difference. You really do get better than factory cutting, smooth self feeding with big chips. Your chain stays sharp longer too, because you're cutting with a larger area of the tooth. I don't use it on every raker. I use it once, on the first tooth to get the height set, then do the same number of strokes on all the rest of the teeth. Once you've been using it for a while you get your eye recalibrated from how you used to look at rakers using guides.

It's a relatively cheap tool and has lots of other uses.

Shaun

 

[Pelorus]

I'd say take the pepsi challenge on that one.

If you use a DAF then you can concentrate purely on raker shape. The DAF method is very consistent, and lets you get perfect rakers. Try it and you'll be shocked at the difference. You really do get better than factory cutting, smooth self feeding with big chips. Your chain stays sharp longer too, because you're cutting with a larger area of the tooth. I don't use it on every raker. I use it once, on the first tooth to get the height set, then do the same number of strokes on all the rest of the teeth. Once you've been using it for a while you get your eye recalibrated from how you used to look at rakers using guides.

It's a relatively cheap tool and has lots of other uses.

Shaun

I honestly don't think a DAF is gonna be either practical or necessary when dealing with a 50 DL 14" loop of chain for a MS200T. Having never tried a DAF, I'll just have to take your word on how good it is. It really isn't difficult to achieve better than factory cutting out-of-the-box performance from a chain that is hand filed, incl. the rakers. Biggest problem I have found with Stihl 0200T chains is that the rakers are high (marginally) right outta the box.

How hard is it really to maintain the proper raker profile with a flat file, without your DAF gadget???

 

[brandongunn2003]

What grinder do you guys use to grind your full chisel low profile chain?