Bore cut kickback

[Bermie]

Who ever all these over paid under qualified "experts" are who are advocating bore cutting should consider the consequences of having rookies bore cutting trees.
The way to start a bore cut has been well described already.
WRAP YOUR LEFT THUMB AROUND THE HANDLE BAR. I constantly see people who should know better with their thumb above the handle bar. This could save your life. If the saw stays in your hand when it kicks back you chances of avoiding injury are much better.
My personal experience with this is a tree service company saw that had been rev rev bang the brake on so much that when it did kick back with me the inertia handle activated but the brake band broke. Fortunately my thumb was around the handle bar and the saw stayed in both hands. When my left elbow completely bent towards me, my body was pushed back and the wide open throttle saw, cut a kerf in the bill of my hard hat instead of my forehead.
After you start a bore cut and you feel the saw chattering in the cut it is kick back but it is contained inside the the wood by the wood above the bar. This is a very powerful force even though it might feel mild. I have had it break tie straps on the chain. When the chattering starts it can often be stopped by rotating the saw on its axis. Give the handle bar a shake left and right as if you where checking the play in a steering wheel.
I am 240 lbs and don't have a soft or weak spot on me, and kick back from a little saw scares the crap out of me.

Joe,
You have raised some very pertinent points Thank-you!

Having your thumb all the way around the bar is crucial...you fail your asessments here if you consistently leave your thumb on top +1
Inapproriate or overuse of the chainbrake, maddening +1
Saw 'chattering' inside the bore, the danger zone is contacting wood and trying to kick out, time to readjust the area that is cutting (mental picture) +1
Kickback is scary no matter what size you are! +1

Thank God your chain had stopped rotating when it hit your hard hat, raises a question about where you were positioned in relation to the bar???

The borecut has its place, if you are well taught in the first instance then it can be used safely and appropriately. It IS dangerous if applied or practiced incorrectly. At some time in your career, you WILL experience kickback, walking away from it depends on being prepared for it!

BTW, I don't usually like listing my qualifications but given the concern that bore cuts are being advocated by the underqualified... I am a City and Guilds NPTC approved chainsaw assessor and verifier, and Lantra Awards registered instructor. These are the UK standards for chainsaw competence.
The bore cut is taught to 'novices' for felling and crosscutting techniques AFTER they have completed their initial CS qualification in maintenance and crosscutting of timber smaller than a 16" bar. By then you know they understand reactive forces of the saw AND the timber.

Time for beer

 

[joesawer]

Bermie, I should be more careful with accusations. Some people are making bore cuts to fall all trees "the cool" thing to do and it really irritates me. They should be taught a lot of things first, like when it is needed.
The saw chain never stopped moving, it was running at wide open throttle and slinging bar oil on my glasses. the only thing that saved me from serious or fatal injury is the fact that it stayed in my hands and pushed my whole body back verses coming out of my left hand and rotating back into my head.
This happened very early in my career and now I pay much more attention to my body position. But any one who uses a saw very much will at times have their body in the kickback zone, at these times it is absolutely essential that they make sure that there is no bar tip contact or kick back potential present.

 

[beelsr]

WRAP YOUR LEFT THUMB AROUND THE HANDLE BAR. I constantly see people who should know better with their thumb above the handle bar. This could save your life. If the saw stays in your hand when it kicks back you chances of avoiding injury are much better.

{snipped}

After you start a bore cut and you feel the saw chattering in the cut it is kick back but it is contained inside the the wood by the wood above the bar. This is a very powerful force even though it might feel mild. I have had it break tie straps on the chain. When the chattering starts it can often be stopped by rotating the saw on its axis. Give the handle bar a shake left and right as if you where checking the play in a steering wheel.
I am 240 lbs and don't have a soft or weak spot on me, and kick back from a little saw scares the crap out of me.

And keep the right thumb wrapped too. i used to have a bad habit of keeping the thumb on the trigger release bar and using it to "press" the saw in the cut. Until it kicked back on me and the carb box about bent my thumb off backwards.

Though, I just did a couple bore cuts today. Just for practice on some stumps... :biggrinbounce2:

 

[Bermie]

Bermie, I should be more careful with accusations. Some people are making bore cuts to fall all trees "the cool" thing to do and it really irritates me. They should be taught a lot of things first, like when it is needed.
The saw chain never stopped moving, it was running at wide open throttle and slinging bar oil on my glasses. the only thing that saved me from serious or fatal injury is the fact that it stayed in my hands and pushed my whole body back verses coming out of my left hand and rotating back into my head.
This happened very early in my career and now I pay much more attention to my body position. But any one who uses a saw very much will at times have their body in the kickback zone, at these times it is absolutely essential that they make sure that there is no bar tip contact or kick back potential present.

Gotcha, +1 we agree!

 

[Tree Sling'r]

I seldomly bore when falling, all the time when bucking though. Often times I have to bore the middle and then come back around to it to save from slabbing or spliting merchable timber.
When I do bore for falling it is for jack seats, which is with the grain on two sides of the seat and with a long bar on hard butted wood it can get interesting. I've left many of bruises on my thighs.
I will bore the face and leave posts for a hinge on many leaners as well.
Can't stress enough about the joesawyer description of thump wrapping. a must.

 

[sILlogger]

No me thinks safest
is to piece down instead of felling. I have cut over ten thousand leaners
without a bore! I have used bore cuts to do other things like make bowls
hearts etc. Notch and backcut has worked in every other instance except
ice loaded trees and power prunner is used on them.

good luck piecing down that big hickory, white oak or walnut in the woods, and ill sit back and watch as you cut your face cut and come round the back and pull the heart out of them or blow them in half, then i will watch you walk to the truck after you get fired. i would say that i bore cut prolly 70% of all the trees that i cut(all hardwood) now this might not be necessary on a softwood tree, but when it comes you hardwood bore cuts are very important

bore cut anyone?!?!? this is on a white oak

 

[ropensaddle]

good luck piecing down that big hickory, white oak or walnut in the woods, and ill sit back and watch as you cut your face cut and come round the back and pull the heart out of them or blow them in half, then i will watch you walk to the truck after you get fired. i would say that i bore cut prolly 70% of all the trees that i cut(all hardwood) now this might not be necessary on a softwood tree, but when it comes you hardwood bore cuts are very important

bore cut anyone?!?!? this is on a white oak

Well first off there is no tree I can't piece down but if I was a logger
I still would be using a notch and backcut but would be lumberman
notch and not common. I have not pulled heart out or busted any
tree I was saving for timber and would not be walking back to the
truck fired as you put it because I can't fire myself feller. I hope
you don't find wire in the trunk one day and get the kickback of
your life and have to have your boss carry you back to the truck.

 

[sILlogger]

do nails, barb wire, woven wire, railroad spikes, bullets, or angle iron count????hit them all

 

[Engineeringnerd]

Borecut video example

Understanding the danger of posting pictures or video on this site, I'll take a risk and show an bore-cut example for critique. B_Turner, I wish I'd had one of your square ground chains for this one!

http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/...rrent=070616Borecutw372xpintobigoakstump3.flv

 

[SWE#Kipp]

Understanding the danger of posting pictures or video on this site, I'll take a risk and show an bore-cut example for critique. B_Turner, I wish I'd had one of your square ground chains for this one!

http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/...iew¤t=070616Borecutw372xpintobigoakstump3.flv

Looks excellent

 

[Engineeringnerd]

Several years ago I received a Husqvarna video showing basic saw maintenance and cutting techniques. They prescribed the bore cut as the preferred, safest way to fell a tree. I found that interesting, as I think it is a significantly riskier cut than simply cutting a wedge and making a back cut. The video didn't even describe using wedges, which I think was an oversight. I think the bore cut makes wedging more difficult as well, so when I'm not 100% sure of the direction of fall, I avoid the bore, start my back cut and put in a wedge as soon as I can.

I use the bore cut to fell leaners and for squaring off stumps (it allows me to cut the center out and keep the weight of the stump off the bar) and seldom at any other time. I haven't used it for bucking, perhaps I'm not understanding the advantages versus the risks.

I notice that sometimes when I'm boring the saw will begin to "chatter" and I'm quick to shift force to the bottom side of the bar. I've never had it kick back, but I imagine the risk is mostly during the first 5" of insertion then the tip could force you back and grab the exit of the kerf and cause rotation. Once you are in several inches, the bar can't rotate without coming out of the bore. An attentive sawyer should be able to counteract those forces before the bar gets too far out of the cut and things goes ballistic via kickback. Has anyone experience otherwise?

 

[SawTroll]

Understanding the danger of posting pictures or video on this site, I'll take a risk and show an bore-cut example for critique. B_Turner, I wish I'd had one of your square ground chains for this one!

http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/...rrent=070616Borecutw372xpintobigoakstump3.flv

Looks pretty perfectly executed to me......

...but I am no expert, never had any problems when bore-cutting either.....

 

[Urbicide]

do nails, barb wire, woven wire, railroad spikes, bullets, or angle iron count????hit them all

I like electric fence insulators too. opcorn:

 

[Engineeringnerd]

I've never hit a nail or barbed wire in a tree. I hit a piece of rabbit wire once, but it just beat up my chain a bit; no violent reaction.

What happens when you hit larger stuff?

 

[Tzed250]

I hit a railroad spike deep inside a Red Oak one time...

 

[keith c raymond]

Master of cutting I am not,and I dont even own a Stihl.{yet}.But I think it is good to use the bore cut when needed.Granted,If you have a good leaner with a clear drop area,you dont need a bore cut.Forest Applications classes teach you the borecut to help make a solid hinge for accurate felling.Also if you use their method,wedging is actually easier because the ten percent of holding wood gives you a space to insert wedges and then you can remove the holding wood to pound the wedges.If you have vast experience you may not need or want to do a borecut,however,after I have attended these classes,I will not live by the borecut,but will use it more than before because of the control that i will have over fall direction,and It has given me more confidence in my cutting ability.

 

[sILlogger]

engineeringnerd, looks like a good job to me, but try using the top of the bar tip, starting with the top of the bar and then stick the saw in, pretty well eliminates any chance of kickback. but hey, everyone has there own way of doing things and as long as it works for you that is what matters, have a good 'un. and when u hit large objects it can give u a good big of kick, shear of cutter teeth, or break chains.

 

[John Ellison]

engineeringnerd, looks like a good job to me, but try using the top of the bar tip, starting with the top of the bar and then stick the saw in, pretty well eliminates any chance of kickback. , .

Maybe you are talking about something else? As far as boring, I dont think anyone should try this.

 

[Lou]

Joe Homeowner Here

When my Pioneer 20" bar was pinched in a standing Doug Fir the Gent that sharpened my chains came to my rescue. He made 2 parallel cuts the width of his bar apart then plunge cut between these 2 cuts to create the notch cut.

I imitated his method for quite a while and only after coming here and getting my Husky have I stopped. I am also guilty of chasing the hinge until finding this site. Thank you Ladies and Gents.

Now my question: Is this an approved method for creating a notch cut? If not please explain why not? TIA If this derails the thread holler I'll post anew.

 

[sILlogger]

Maybe you are talking about something else? As far as boring, I dont think anyone should try this.

nope, not talking about anything different, rather than using the bottom of the bar tip (which wants to kick the saw outward-back at you, in the instance of a kickback) use the top side of the tip which would force the bar into the wood in the event of a kickback-which doesn't hardly ever happen because the wood that the saw would be using to kick back is already cut, ill try to get a video of it some time to further explain what i mean