Bucking up the Big Tree

[smokechase II]

http://www.inciweb.org/incident/pictures/large/1763/24/

This is from the Williams Fire Photo Page.

There are some other photos scattered thru that are of the NorthWest Timber Fallers so I suspect this is of them.

No big deal.

 

[cbolyard]

Nice photo for sure! I've seen the Northwest Timber Fallers at work in person on the fireline... they are definitely a very capable bunch.

 

[tramp bushler]

Ya , nice pic .. what kind of tree?
. whats with the guys dressed like cutters and the other guys dressed like G Es ///

 

[smokechase II]

Other guys

Misc Overhead.

Must be.

I Googled the name of the guy given credit for the photo with 'fire' and got some document on Mazama _______________ ____________.

He must be a resource advisor or an ologist that started as and still is a fire fighter.

===================

The way these things usually work is two cutters go out with a falling boss.

So the scene would typically be set with one cutter dropping a hazard while the other and the falling boss (who have helped with escape route clearing and packing stuff) are now blocking access from all the other fire fighter who want to see. Two tree lengths and more if slope etc.

When things get easier for safety distance crowds show up.

 

[bullbuck]

nice pic,hope that one made it to the mill?looks to be solid

 

[smokechase II]

The mill

If it is on federal land, and much of this fire is, it may not make it to the mill.

Cross your fingers.

 

[cbolyard]

If it is on federal land, and much of this fire is, it may not make it to the mill.

Cross your fingers.

Isn't it a shame how few quality saw logs from the fireline don't make it to the mill?

IIRC, the guy given credit for that photo is an FMO on the Fremont-Winema NF, Crescent or Chemult Ranger District.

 

[Tree Sling'r]

Misc Overhead.

Must be.

I Googled the name of the guy given credit for the photo with 'fire' and got some document on Mazama _______________ ____________.

He must be a resource advisor or an ologist that started as and still is a fire fighter.

===================

George Liebercajt is a Div. Sup on the ORCA Type II team who managing the Williams Fire. George is from central Oregon, he is a good guy.

 

[smokechase II]

Mill

"Isn't it a shame how few quality saw logs from the fireline don't make it to the mill?"

================

I understand that there are some needs for dead wood in the woods for critters.

But in the FS it got not just silly but absurd.

If that road is doable that whole log should make it out.
Even if they had to split it and short log it.

==================

I certainly can't speak for the the agency (I'm retired) but as a citizen I would like to apologize.
This isn't an apology put out from a we need the jobs perspective. Although there is certainly nothing wrong with that.

Historically, these large fires come in multiples.
1) Insect or disease events usually get things rolling,
2) First fire burns the above then kills more,
those additional tree die and many fall over,
3) Second fire and perhaps more.
................... These additional fires cause a lot of soil sterilization ..................

===============

We can stop these cycles at any time.

Sensible logging (thinning from below etc) with fuels treatment.
Anytime.

=============

So I'm advocating trees go to the mill, virtually never without the slash dealt with, put fire fighters out of work.
Of course we know that'll never happen.

 

[smokechase II]

so many

There have been so many large fires in big trees in the western US in the last couple decades ..............

Plenty of work for the cutters.

==============

Plus we're going into an El Nino and while no one can predict a fire season the historical stats 'suggest' a busy next couple years.

 

[smokechase II]

George

George must be from Chemult.

(Crescent is on the Deschutes NF)

=============

The fact that he contributed on a paper means he has smarts.
Not his fault.

 

[cbolyard]

I couldn't agree more that sensible logging would go a long way to making the forests a better place. But thanks to the enviro wackos that think a healthy forest means one choking (literally) with trees so thick you can't see through them it's hard to make any headway.

 

[cbolyard]

George must be from Chemult.

(Crescent is on the Deschutes NF)

Correct, and thanks for the brain duster. Haven't even been gone from that country quite a year and already I'm forgetting things

 

[slowp]

That log is on a forest which is ruled by the Northwest Forest Plan. I highly doubt it will make it to a mill. Before any tree heads to the mill, an environmental assessment has to be done and that means surveys for the sensitive species, plants, slugs, birds, and other critters. That takes about a year. Then you have to figure out what management area the tree is in. LSR? Forget it. Then the timber sale will be appealed and run through the gamut and IF the sale survives all the legal challenges, it might still be good to sell, but maybe not anymore.

You have to figure is it worth all of the above? Or is it more feasible to leave it alone. Perhaps the fish people have enough funding to dump it in a river or creek?

One person can hold it up. That's the way it is.

Oh, LSR stands for Late Seral Reserve officially. Unofficially, we politically incorrect people say it stands for Let Sit and Rot.

Back to bucking. That looks scary to me. But I'm just a "B" Bucker, which I think is fitting. I've always been just a B student...

 

[bullbuck]

one particular burn salvage sale i remember,the enviros had exhausted all of their 5$injunctuions that the courts would allow,and we had to be on the job at the ready to put saw to wood immediately after recieving word of a go ahead,thus being underway it could no longer be appealedat least thats what i understood

 

[2dogs]

That is one big stick! Thanks for the pic.

 

[smokechase II]

I'll be positive for one post

Those NW Timber Fallers are pretty dang good.

I've only been around them a little but I was impressed with quality quantity safety attitude to do the job etc.

I asked a bud who went down to a Cal fire as a Division Sup last year how they did for him.

Two words:
"ROCK STARS"

They get high marks for their ability on about a 100% level.

Their spokesperson/owner does a real quality job too standing up for industry folks on fires.

From what I read she is a tiger and I'd back down from her in a bar too.

 

[smokechase II]

Time to be negative

That NW Forest Plan is a killer.

I worked on a Eastside forest that had both Owl habitat and just regular ol' forest.

Effectively what that meant for me was that I'd just give up on the Owl Line stuff, (I was low level scum who just did the easy paperwork CE's).

Nobody noticed as I was involved in protecting Antennae farms etc. That seemed important down low.

Also; there was so much in house fighting that the higher wildlife controlled acres were depressing to work on.

****************

When you look at a forest service employee realize that there is a heelllll.

 

[slowp]

one particular burn salvage sale i remember,the enviros had exhausted all of their 5$injunctuions that the courts would allow,and we had to be on the job at the ready to put saw to wood immediately after recieving word of a go ahead,thus being underway it could no longer be appealedat least thats what i understood

There is a time period for an appeal. That time is usually calculated in for how long it takes to put a sale up. But, if the appeal is ruled on in favor of the FS, then the complainers can take it to court. You could have been shut down by a court injunction.

 

[cbolyard]

That log is on a forest which is ruled by the Northwest Forest Plan. I highly doubt it will make it to a mill. Before any tree heads to the mill, an environmental assessment has to be done and that means surveys for the sensitive species, plants, slugs, birds, and other critters. That takes about a year. Then you have to figure out what management area the tree is in. LSR? Forget it. Then the timber sale will be appealed and run through the gamut and IF the sale survives all the legal challenges, it might still be good to sell, but maybe not anymore.

You have to figure is it worth all of the above? Or is it more feasible to leave it alone. Perhaps the fish people have enough funding to dump it in a river or creek?

One person can hold it up. That's the way it is.

Oh, LSR stands for Late Seral Reserve officially. Unofficially, we politically incorrect people say it stands for Let Sit and Rot.

Back to bucking. That looks scary to me. But I'm just a "B" Bucker, which I think is fitting. I've always been just a B student...

All good points. Back in 06 the Tripod Fire was burning on my home district. There was a lot of quality timber fell on that fire for one reason or another, and not a single b/f of it was in LSR or any other management area that would have prevented it from being sent to the mill. Of the 180,000 acres or so that burned, I think they ended up doing a salvage sale on about 8,000 of it. All the log decks but one got sold in the salvage... the one that didn't get sold was right behind some private land on another small fire that was burning at the same time and the landowner wouldn't give us an easement. He ended up buying the deck this year for firewood so at least it won't go to waste.
NW Forest Plan and people with too much time on their hands (and often not enough smarts) really slow things down for the R6 forests a lot of times... its a shame but all you can do is grit your teeth and bear it.