Bucking up the Big Tree

[2dogs]

We were burning a unit down on Lowell RD near Eugene, 1973 I think.

All the grunts were saying that we needed a hose lay through a very small saddle but the head guy said no, we'll put the coals to it over here on the small butte and generate enough heat to pull away from the saddle.

The grunts were right.

I was out about 75 yards away from the line in a fetal with my nose buried in my shirt with eyes watering more than Niagara. Fair amount of snot.
Everyone was doing the same.
Get up about every 10 minutes and rotate someone through who would give a report on how many spots that had 'scratch line'. Emphasis on the scratch.

The head guy was coming through away from the line cause he couldn't take it either and headed right at me.
Coughing and blowing snot.
I didn't move - turned my Motorola radio off.

He tripped slightly as he hit one of my boots.

The smoke was so thick and his vision so obscured by watering he couldn't see well enough to realize he had tripped on a living creature.

--------------------

There were maybe 50 spots in the large fuels. Everything else was wet enough in the shade that it didn't carry. We did put in hose later and moped for awhile.

--------------------

I'm retired and live a largely snot free lifestyle.

I've never worked a Rx burn quite like that but when I was about 14 years old I was working a ranch burn that escaped. We were trynig to burn off 3 thousand acres out of 20,000 plus. The 2 thousand acres was all green the next morning but another 8 thou was black. The ranch was beautiful the next spring though.

Another time (much later) I was driving a contract water tender on a training burn on Ft. Hunter Ligget. The training ended around 4:00 pm but the rekindle started during dinner. It burned into a closed off part of the base. The closure was due to UXO. It burned all night and crossed out of the range during breakfast. We just practised on another part of the base.

Same training burn one of the other drivers had his tender roll away while he was filling it.

 

[oregoncutter]

what a waste, but nothing new!

If it is on federal land, and much of this fire is, it may not make it to the mill.

Cross your fingers.

Back in the winter of 96- 97 we had a batch of nasty weather, a warm system come in lot's of heavy snow above 3,500ft and heavy rain, and wind below that, then a huge melt off. There were so many uproots, and blowdowns right along the roads on b.l.m, and forest service I could never figure out why they didn't accept bids for the logs some were pretty nice old growth sticks. Instead they left alot to rot or just had them cleaned out enough to get through the roads. As far as taking that log to a mill it's sort of sad anymore there is only a few mills even semi locally around douglas county here that can process or even accept logs over 31'' on the big end, seems most are looking for the 18''-24'' diameter logs. Now cedar depending on the market is a different story it's usualy not too hard to find someone willing to buy the larger cedar logs. Then to bring it to town You have to look at the feasability of going in and getting it, is there enough to make it worth doing, are there access roads, cost and possibility of even being able to scratch dirt to build roads into the job, being close to the n umpqua river i'd imagine the enviros will keep a close eye on all activity in that area, too bad they never seem to show up with a shovel or to help during fires (not that anyone would want them there though)

 

[slowp]

We were lucky. The fuels guy wanted us timber beasties to be willing to help, so he usually put us in spots that weren't too smoky. Either lighting or bumping down the hose line wetting things down. Once though, things got crazy and we were near some homes in the woods. Our nice little burn on flat ground for a change, turned into a night time exercise of pulling hose all over in the dark. I had the smoke smell in my hair for a month afterwards.

Some of the fire guys had to find other jobs because they became extra sensitive to smoke.

 

[Greystoke]

The environmentalists who fight prescribed fire or any other forest management plan here in Collyfornia site the "terrible" track record of fire proponents. They claim damage going back over 500 years by those people who advocate frequent low level fires. They also claim the almost park like landscape first viewed by European explorers and settlers was in reality a hell-on-earth artificialy created by the prescribed fire proponents and their evil philosophy. These evil doers used to be called Indians, then Native Americans, and now just "first settlers". Their slash and burn techniques are being credited for creating an entire false eco-system that encompasses much of the USA and Canada. Now we are beginning to here that there should be no forest management of any types other than to eradicate non-native species and stop human activities in the forests.

This is of course radical BS (in my opinion)

but it does have a litle traction around my home town. I'm positive the 9th Circuit Court will fall in love with this notion when they hear of it. There will be more law suits with groups of animals as the plaintives. Heck, Smokey Bear will probably sued in civil court.

It's not Just opinion, it is BS! Definitely don't miss all the tree-huggers and Liberal bias in that area.

 

[Greystoke]

Forest Fires and Timber Management

repressing forest fires here in BC has been partly blamed for the big big fires ....argument goes that smaller fires take care of fuel loading, burn off duff, promtoe growth of certain trees, keeping the forest structure a bit more diverse etc...natives did it long ago to create grazing/hunting grounds and promote growth of first stage seral species that offered foodstuffs....anways, among a certain group, prescribed burns are all the rage yet are hard to promote to some...

I don't buy into that ideology at all. The fires of 1910 Burned across 3 million acres of Idaho and Montana...Largest forest fire in American history. There was very little fire-fighting going on prior to 1910(Forest Service was formed in 1905), and there was nothing they could do but just watch it blow up. Liberal media here have blamed our big fires on overly aggressive fire-fighting, and logging, but all they have to do is some research on the history of 1910. We could be having big fires because we have been having hotter and dryer weather than normal maybe, combined with overgrown forests? It does not take a genius to figure out what needs to be done to help prevent us having to watch, and breathe, all of our federal timberlands going up in smoke...just take a look at all of the private timber-land owners across this country, then compare the percentage of private timber-land that burns up, compared to the percentage of Federal timber-land that burns up(minus wilderness areas of course).

 

[cbolyard]

They mentioned that he's at Chemult, but not what he does. Plus, that was conjecture. I actually know the guy and work with him on a semi-regular basis since we're both in SCOFMP.

I know him as well, I used to work on the same Forest but a different district. Never got a chance to work with him though. I was working out of the metropolis known as Bly

 

[smokechase II]

Adding fuel to the fire

There is no doubt in my mind that we have made things worse in our forests by mismanagement.

The biggest error is not roads or logging but it is clearly fire suppression.

===============

Granted, the 1910 fires occurred before fire suppression.
Those stand replacement fires have always occurred. It was just that they were much further apart.

Now they are close together.

*********************

The pics are typical of a stand where Fire has been excluded.

Somewhere in Montana. Spanning several decades. (They are mislabeled year - closer to 15 years apart)

==================

The item to focus on here is ladder fuels. The new young trees that everyone loves so much are the ones that kill the old growth.

 

[smokechase II]

Throughout all ecosystems

Here are a couple photos - one hundred years apart - of a hillside East of Prineville Oregon.

We refer to this as the Juniper incursion.

You add fuel you get hotter - bigger - more dangerous fires.

=================

I don't know of any witness evidence for this specific location but I suspect that the Juniper stand from 1889 was a product of Native American burning more that just Mother Nature.
One advantage to 'Paiute Forestry' is that it made the stands either far more fire resistant or far less subject to catastrophic damage.

 

[Jacob J.]

I know him as well, I used to work on the same Forest but a different district. Never got a chance to work with him though. I was working out of the metropolis known as Bly

Good god man, you have my sympathies....

 

[cbolyard]

Good god man, you have my sympathies....

So I take it you know Bly then? There's a reason I don't live in SE OR anymore... I'm just glad we didn't have to live in Bly.

 

[cbolyard]

Here are a couple photos - one hundred years apart - of a hillside East of Prineville Oregon.

We refer to this as the Juniper incursion.

You add fuel you get hotter - bigger - more dangerous fires.

=================

I don't know of any witness evidence for this specific location but I suspect that the Juniper stand from 1889 was a product of Native American burning more that just Mother Nature.
One advantage to 'Paiute Forestry' is that it made the stands either far more fire resistant or far less subject to catastrophic damage.

Ah yes, the march of the junipers...

 

[smokechase II]

"So I take it you know Bly then? There's a reason I don't live in SE OR anymore... I'm just glad we didn't have to live in Bly."

===============

The only people I know that ever wanted to go to Bly were some Islamic terrorists who wanted to set up a training ranch shootin' range. Typical Warshingtoneans if you asked me.

----------------

Actually SE Oregon (had the largest cattle ranch in the US), is really neat.
Big spaces, geothermal stuff, scarp faults- Steens Mtns, BIG BIG deer, Alvord Desert/Lake, Big spaces.

 

[cbolyard]

"So I take it you know Bly then? There's a reason I don't live in SE OR anymore... I'm just glad we didn't have to live in Bly."

===============

The only people I know that ever wanted to go to Bly were some Islamic terrorists who wanted to set up a training ranch shootin' range. Typical Warshingtoneans if you asked me.

----------------

Actually SE Oregon (had the largest cattle ranch in the US), is really neat.
Big spaces, geothermal stuff, scarp faults- Steens Mtns, BIG BIG deer, Alvord Desert/Lake, Big spaces.

Bly has a lot of interesting history... the only stateside casualties of WWII were in Bly, there was a terrorist training camp near there just prior to 9/11, lots more weirdness happened in that town. And I'm sure you know it was Weyerhauser's HQ back in the heydays of actually selling timber. I didn't mind SE OR, but we were a long way from anybody or anything we knew down there.
And I'm not a Warshingtonean, I'm from ID Whether that's better or worse is yet to be decided

 

[smokechase II]

Islamic terrorists

"And I'm not a Warshingtonean"

I was referring to the "Islamic terrorists who wanted to set up a training ranch shootin' range."

They were Warshingtoneans just prior to their Bly 'excursion'.

==========

Typical.

Some offense intended, although certainly not at a cal if or nick ate level.

 

[cbolyard]

I was referring to the "Islamic terrorists who wanted to set up a training ranch shootin' range."

They were Warshingtoneans just prior to their Bly 'excursion'.

Now that I hadn't heard before.

 

[smokechase II]

Matter of public record

"5. During various times relevant in this Indictment, EARNEST JAMES
UJAAMA (hereinafter, “UJAAMA”), whose birth name was James Earnest Thompson,
and who also has used and adopted the names Bilal Ahmed, Abu Samayya, and Abdul
Qaadir, visited and resided in London, England; and visited and resided in Seattle, Warshington.
B. OBJECT OF THE CONSPIRACY
6. Beginning at a time uncertain, but no later than the fall of 1999 and continuing
through the present, in the Western District of Washington and elsewhere, EARNEST
JAMES UJAAMA, a/k/a Bilal Ahmed, a/k/a Abu Samayya, a/k/a James Earnest
Thompson, a/k/a Abdul Qaadir (“UJAAMA”), did knowingly conspire, combine,
confederate, and agree together with other persons known and unknown to the Grand
Jury, within the jurisdiction of the United States, to(a) provide material support and resources, that is, training, facilities, computer
services, safehouses, and personnel, to Al Qaida, a designated foreign terrorist
organization, in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 2339B; and
(b) provide material support and resources, that is, training, facilities, computer
services, safehouses, and personnel, knowing and intending that they were to be
used in preparation for and in carrying out a conspiracy to destroy property and
murder and maim persons located outside the United States, in violation of Title
18, United States Code, Sections 2339A and 956.
C. PURPOSE OF THE CONSPIRACY
7. The purpose of the conspiracy was to offer and provide facilities in the United
States of America for training of persons interested in violent jihad;..............."

 

[slowp]

Well, that explains it. They weren't Warshingtonians, they were,
:jawdrop:SEATTLEITES:jawdrop:

There's a difference.

 

[cbolyard]

Well, that explains it. They weren't Warshingtonians, they were,
:jawdrop:SEATTLEITES:jawdrop:

There's a difference.

Couldn't agree more with you!

 

[Tree Sling'r]

So I take it you know Bly then? There's a reason I don't live in SE OR anymore... I'm just glad we didn't have to live in Bly.

I lived in Bly for 7 month's in 94'-95'. I was working for Croman up Ivory Pine road and lived in the Buchannon cabin's right behind the new Chevron. I got drunk a lot, with the locals and Dj'd at Bud's Place on the weekends.

 

[cbolyard]

I lived in Bly for 7 month's in 94'-95'. I was working for Croman up Ivory Pine road and lived in the Buchannon cabin's right behind the new Chevron. I got drunk a lot, with the locals and Dj'd at Bud's Place on the weekends.

Dang, small world! Getting drunk a lot while living in Bly... I think its actually a requirement to live there