Bucking up the Big Tree

[bullbuck]

There is a time period for an appeal. That time is usually calculated in for how long it takes to put a sale up. But, if the appeal is ruled on in favor of the FS, then the complainers can take it to court. You could have been shut down by a court injunction.

yes that is what they where trying to do,i believe it was the center for biological diversity,that had injucted the salvage of this burn for almost two years,but from what i remember bush had just implemented the healthy forests initiative,and i think what that did was put limitations on how many times they could injuct the sale,from what i understand is it costs five dollars at the county courthouse and you can sue or injuct?(i am no attorney)anyone you like,but apparently they had used up all of their trys,thank goodness,and we got back to work

 

[1I'dJak]

repressing forest fires here in BC has been partly blamed for the big big fires ....argument goes that smaller fires take care of fuel loading, burn off duff, promtoe growth of certain trees, keeping the forest structure a bit more diverse etc...natives did it long ago to create grazing/hunting grounds and promote growth of first stage seral species that offered foodstuffs....anways, among a certain group, prescribed burns are all the rage yet are hard to promote to some...

 

[bullbuck]

repressing forest fires here in BC has been partly blamed for the big big fires ....argument goes that smaller fires take care of fuel loading, burn off duff, promtoe growth of certain trees, keeping the forest structure a bit more diverse etc...natives did it long ago to create grazing/hunting grounds and promote growth of first stage seral species that offered foodstuffs....anways, among a certain group, prescribed burns are all the rage yet are hard to promote to some...

here in this area they have been allowing fires to burn their course in some of the wilderness areas,i do not know what kind of results they are getting,but alot of this area needs to burn,in my opinion,just when the wind is not blowing,thats the catch,i am sure you might have heard of the "control burn"near los alamos a few years back

 

[2dogs]

repressing forest fires here in BC has been partly blamed for the big big fires ....argument goes that smaller fires take care of fuel loading, burn off duff, promtoe growth of certain trees, keeping the forest structure a bit more diverse etc...natives did it long ago to create grazing/hunting grounds and promote growth of first stage seral species that offered foodstuffs....anways, among a certain group, prescribed burns are all the rage yet are hard to promote to some...

The environmentalists who fight prescribed fire or any other forest management plan here in Collyfornia site the "terrible" track record of fire proponents. They claim damage going back over 500 years by those people who advocate frequent low level fires. They also claim the almost park like landscape first viewed by European explorers and settlers was in reality a hell-on-earth artificialy created by the prescribed fire proponents and their evil philosophy. These evil doers used to be called Indians, then Native Americans, and now just "first settlers". Their slash and burn techniques are being credited for creating an entire false eco-system that encompasses much of the USA and Canada. Now we are beginning to here that there should be no forest management of any types other than to eradicate non-native species and stop human activities in the forests.

This is of course radical BS (in my opinion) but it does have a litle traction around my home town. I'm positive the 9th Circuit Court will fall in love with this notion when they hear of it. There will be more law suits with groups of animals as the plaintives. Heck, Smokey Bear will probably sued in civil court.

 

[smokechase II]

controlled

"here in this area they have been allowing fires to burn their course in some of the wilderness areas,i do not know what kind of results they are getting,but alot of this area needs to burn,in my opinion,just when the wind is not blowing,thats the catch,i am sure you might have heard of the "control burn"near los alamos a few years back"

++++++++++++++++

I was on the rehab of the Cerro Grande (Los Alamos) burn.

It was a billion dollar mistake.

Seriously.

---------------

On the bright side i don't feel so bad about ordering that unneeded load of retardent back in the 1970's. $2,000 bucks wasted. small potatoes.

===============

You can't lite a match without taking some risk.
I'm sure the Indians, relax - my Mom always said She was an Indian - Not a Native American, had their mistakes too.

 

[bullbuck]

"here in this area they have been allowing fires to burn their course in some of the wilderness areas,i do not know what kind of results they are getting,but alot of this area needs to burn,in my opinion,just when the wind is not blowing,thats the catch,i am sure you might have heard of the "control burn"near los alamos a few years back"

++++++++++++++++

I was on the rehab of the Cerro Grande (Los Alamos) burn.

It was a billion dollar mistake.

Seriously.

---------------

On the bright side i don't feel so bad about ordering that unneeded load of retardent back in the 1970's. $2,000 bucks wasted. small potatoes.

===============

You can't lite a match without taking some risk.
I'm sure the Indians, relax - my Mom always said She was an Indian - Not a Native American, had their mistakes too.

haha,i have burned quite a few commercial cat piles,some in excess of 150'by150',i have been very close to losing control on more than one,i am only 33 but some of the crazy stuff i have seen fire do!i have been very close to "almost" large mistakes myself:jawdrop:

 

[hammerlogging]

These evil doers used to be called Indians, then Native Americans, and now just "first settlers". Their slash and burn techniques are being credited for creating an entire false eco-system that encompasses much of the USA and Canada. Now we are beginning to here that there should be no forest management of any types other than to eradicate non-native species and stop human activities in the forests.
QUOTE]

Its so simple why don't they see it- no humans.

My patience for people unwilling to make reasonable productive compromise is waning rapidly.

I like your new sigs, but miss your old one!

 

[slowp]

My theory of little things, that add up to make small fires get big.

We have fewer people in the woods. Fewer loggers, fewer foresters and Forest Service people. Fewer people who are familiar with what smoke looks like and what to do.

Roads are closed or "decommissioned". Can't get close to the fires by driving.

There's others but the coffee hasn't kicked in yet.

 

[smokechase II]

There I was ................. Once upon a time.............This is no b

"haha,i have burned quite a few commercial cat piles,some in excess of 150'by150',i have been very close to losing control on more than one,i am only 33 but some of the crazy stuff i have seen fire do!i have been very close to "almost" large mistakes myself"

===============

40 years in fire and fuels:
I've been on over 100,000 acres of prescribed burning. (Thanks to South Carolina - Francis Marion NF for most of those acres)
I've burned tens of thousands of handpiles. (Thanks to the Deschutes / State of Oregon Inmate Program for a majority of those)
I've burned thousands of landing piles (aka cat piles - thanks to loggers)
I know there is global warming because I have been personally responsible. I also know that Al Gore was not prepared because his slide show never mentioned me.

---------------------------

Of all the burning I've ever been on no escape ever exceeded 5 acres.
(I was on a few over achievements by others, but none where I was there initially.)

---------------------------

My regret.
That I did not burn more. Low intensity of course.

 

[smokechase II]

Photos

Here is one from a few years back.

 

[cbolyard]

Here is one from a few years back.

That looks like a unit that was fun to burn!

 

[bullbuck]

Here is one from a few years back.

thats a neat burn backpack setup,never seen one of those,i always have used just the standard drip torch for burning

 

[slowp]

And flat ground.

No rolling chunks? No rocks? No cowering behind an old growth stump while things went rolling by? Where's the fun?

 

[smokechase II]

Steep deep and cheap

Tim B told me about one of the West side burns he was on.

They burned it, went fine, after dark they were mopping up at the bottom of the unit.
One guy gets hit, rock or log - I can't remember.
They spend a few hours packing him up and out.
He's loaded in a rig and off to a Doc - he never recovered fully - mental deficits.
Rig pulls away, Boss says back down the hill and lets get 'er mopped.

=======================

I did maybe 3 dozen wet side units. Not many but I understand the fun aspect.

**********************

We were trying out and evaluating a bunch of different burning tools. Pump up diesel torches were OK.
The simple drip torch is usually not the best tool for any job but its the one that does the most jobs well.

 

[Jacob J.]

George Liebercajt is a Div. Sup on the ORCA Type II team who managing the Williams Fire. George is from central Oregon, he is a good guy.

He's the FMO at Chemult Ranger District.

 

[cbolyard]

He's the FMO at Chemult Ranger District.

I think someone mentioned that earlier in this thread

 

[Jacob J.]

They mentioned that he's at Chemult, but not what he does. Plus, that was conjecture. I actually know the guy and work with him on a semi-regular basis since we're both in SCOFMP.

 

[slowp]

We didn't ever hurt anyone too badly, but we had a lot of "All right, we're going to plan D." Which meant our simple, evening broadcast burn, for which we timber beasties got paid overtime to help turned into a burn until the wee hours of the morning because the main fire spotted over into another unit, which was logged, but we didn't plan to burn it that night, but we did.

Pour the fuel to it, get that column built up! Stagger in to do our timber jobs the next morning, and try and get that work done. Our fuels guy would walk around flicking a bic lighter when he needed bodies. We were young and stupid, and needed the money

What was really nice, was that the timber sale contracts required the purchaser to supply the mopup crews. We supplied hose, pumps and a pump operator. We had to stop burning sometimes because we ran short on hoses and pumps and mopup crews. Ahhhh, the old days when the budgets were huge......and the timber too.

 

[2dogs]

That is a might fancy torch ya got there. Ever got to use a Terra Torch?

 

[smokechase II]

I remember

We were burning a unit down on Lowell RD near Eugene, 1973 I think.

All the grunts were saying that we needed a hose lay through a very small saddle but the head guy said no, we'll put the coals to it over here on the small butte and generate enough heat to pull away from the saddle.

The grunts were right.

I was out about 75 yards away from the line in a fetal with my nose buried in my shirt with eyes watering more than Niagara. Fair amount of snot.
Everyone was doing the same.
Get up about every 10 minutes and rotate someone through who would give a report on how many spots that had 'scratch line'. Emphasis on the scratch.

The head guy was coming through away from the line cause he couldn't take it either and headed right at me.
Coughing and blowing snot.
I didn't move - turned my Motorola radio off.

He tripped slightly as he hit one of my boots.

The smoke was so thick and his vision so obscured by watering he couldn't see well enough to realize he had tripped on a living creature.

--------------------

There were maybe 50 spots in the large fuels. Everything else was wet enough in the shade that it didn't carry. We did put in hose later and moped for awhile.

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I'm retired and live a largely snot free lifestyle.