Carbon Analysis On Piston Crown

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I still think a lot of the deposits come from the gasoline, not just the oil. Here is a good article I am copying here I believe from the Rockett Fuels website:
(The old Union 76 fuels before ConcocoPhillips)

Myths - Leaded Racing Gasoline

Pg. 1 of 2

1. Myth: The higher the octane, the slower the burn.
Fact: In many cases, high octane gasoline has faster burning characteristics than low
octane gasoline. It is rarely slower.

2.
Myth: Too much octane reduces horsepower.
Fact:
Trying a higher octane fuel and getting less performance is usually due to introducing
additional variables with the different gasoline which can be overcome by re-tuning the
engine.

3.
Myth: Too much octane will burn up my engine.
Fact:
The only time your engine is aware of octane is when it doesn’t have enough. Using a higher
octane than the engine needs does not hurt or help.

4.
Myth: More Tetraethyl Lead is better.
Fact:
Tetraethyl Lead (TEL) increases the octane number of the gasoline. It reduces spark plug
life, contaminates crankcase oil, and reduces exhaust system life. More is not better.

5.
Myth: Leaded gasoline makes more horsepower than unleaded
Fact:
Leaded gasoline is legal for “ sanctioned off-highway events only” and does not allow the
engine to make more power unless detonation is present. More power can be made with a
street legal oxygenated unleaded gasoline than with leaded gasoline as long as there is no
detonation.

6. Myth: Adding nitromethane to gasoline improves power.
Fact: Nitro knocks the octane number down severely, and makes the mixture way too lean. Jeff
Smith, formerly of Hot Rod Magazine, tried this a few years back and destroyed an engine
before he got the A/F ratio correct.

7.
Myth: Propylene oxide is great stuff.
Fact:
It can be after you find out that it eats soft parts in the fuel system, needs to run richer, needs
to be stored in a cool place, evaporates easily, and can be a disappointment with improper
tuning.

8.
Myth: Aviation Gasoline is a good substitute for racing gasoline.
Fact:
Aviation Gasoline is designed for engines that run at 2700 to 2800 RPM. If your race engine
runs at this speed, aviation gasoline is the hot tip.

Wusz 08/13/04


Pg. 2 of 2

9. Myth: I can improve the racing gasoline by adding a little of this or a little of that.
Fact: We put a lot of scientific effort into making high quality racing gasoline. Being a
backyark blender can be hazardous to your health and to your car’s performance.
Don’t do it.

10. Myth: I can save money by mixing street gasoline with racing gasoline.
Fact: Race engines and performance street engines are built for max performance. You will
make more power with racing gas, especially if you use Rockett Brand TM 100
Unleaded Racing Gasoline in a street engine.

11. Myth: Octane number is power.
Fact: Octane number is resistance to detonation. Higher octane will increase power only if
detonation is present.

12.
Myth: The octane requirement of my engine is always the same.
Fact:
Operating conditions like air temperature, barometric pressure, humidity, and coolant
temperature have an impact on engine octane requirement.

13.
Myth: Detonation and Pre-ignition are the same.
Fact: Detonation can hurt your engine; Pre-ignition will destroy it.
14.
Myth: I want a slow burning gasoline for my race engine.
Fact:
Slow burning gasolines are not conductive to making maximum power. There is not
much time for combustion to take place at 6,000 to 10,000 RPM. Fast burn is best.

15.
Myth: All racing gasolines are the same.
Fact:
There are a variety of ways to make racing gasoline, depending on what type of
blending stocks are used. Some are better than others. All gasolines are not created
equal.

16.
Myth: Storing racing gasoline in plastic jugs is fine.
Fact:
Gasoline is best stored in sealed metal containers. Dark plastic jugs are acceptable,
but light colored plastic jugs allow gasoline color changes and tetraethyl Lead (TEL)
deterioration. The plastic caps can create sealing problems. Use a metal container
with a good sealing screw cap and be sure of what you have.

17.
Myth: To see if one racing gasoline is better than another, just pour it in and run it.
Fact:
A different gasoline has to be part of the tune-up; just like spark timing, carb jetting,
camshaft, valve lash, etc. Don’t over-simplify it. See #15 above.

For Your Nearest Rockett Brand TM Distributor, call or click:
1-800-345-0076 / www.rockettbrand.com

© 2008 Paragon Performance Products, Glenview IL 60026
 
Ok then use what ya wont i dont care.i will use what i wont and then it is all good.

I'm not saying there aren't reasons on smaller engines to not use premium, just that your dealer likely has the wrong reason in this case. My best educated guess is that in lower compression engines like small lawnmowers and such the extra additive package can cause gumming because the cylinder temperatures do not get hot enough to completely burn off the additives.

As a combustion engineer I've done limited work on IC engines, most of my work is on boilers and turbines but the combustion principles do not change.
 
All current saw manufactures say 50:1, especially running synthetic, your not milling, so why??

I agree with TRI955's statement.
 
Does anyone here know anything about Lucas semi synthetic oil, or have any thoughts about it? How does it compare to the other premium oils. I have not seen it mentioned in this thread and I am curious as to what others think about it.
 
Carbon gets there from burning fuel!

And your words pop up on my screen because you touched your keyboard.

Both are true statements, and both have no value in terms of describing the actual processes involved.
 
I was trying to make light of the situation, since they were bickering like a bunch of women. Fact is, even if there was no oil in there, you'd still get carbon build up.
 
I was trying to make light of the situation, since they were bickering like a bunch of women. Fact is, even if there was no oil in there, you'd still get carbon build up.

I know you were...but subtlety is lost on some.
 
I just thought I'd mention that after med studies I was able to name and describe the function of the bits and pieces. Women really like that and seem to function better if you understand them better.


Saws are like that too.


:cheers:



Mr. HE:cool:
 
I just thought I'd mention that after med studies I was able to name and describe the function of the bits and pieces. Women really like that and seem to function better if you understand them better.


Saws are like that too.


:cheers:



Mr. HE:cool:



:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
 
Does anyone here know anything about Lucas semi synthetic oil, or have any thoughts about it? How does it compare to the other premium oils. I have not seen it mentioned in this thread and I am curious as to what others think about it.

I've been told by a respected saw tech and friend that it's good oil. From what's he's seen so far, he plans to start running it after his stock of Mobil 2T runs out.:cheers:
 
But what do you mean? :spam:

Now that is comedy!

I just thought I'd mention that after med studies I was able to name and describe the function of the bits and pieces. Women really like that and seem to function better if you understand them better.

That explains a lot! I don't understand the first thing about women...no wonder I can't get them to work.
 
234 posts and I think only one poster mentioned the additives. All modern 2 stroke lubes are loaded with metal based soaps and smoke suppressants. So it would not surprise me if what looks like carbon deposits also contains calcium from the soaps.

The quickest way to check this would be to stick a small chip under an electron microscope and perform micro X-ray analysis. The Ca and other metals will stick out like dog privates. If you can't get anyone to do this you can send it to me.
 
I've been told by a respected saw tech and friend that it's good oil. From what's he's seen so far, he plans to start running it after his stock of Mobil 2T runs out.:cheers:

Thanks for the information. This is the oil I am currently using mixed at 50:1 with no problems. I would pull the cylinder to look and see if there was any significant carbon buildup but I can't justify pulling the cylinder unless it needs to be done.
 
234 posts and I think only one poster mentioned the additives. All modern 2 stroke lubes are loaded with metal based soaps and smoke suppressants. So it would not surprise me if what looks like carbon deposits also contains calcium from the soaps.

The quickest way to check this would be to stick a small chip under an electron microscope and perform micro X-ray analysis. The Ca and other metals will stick out like dog privates. If you can't get anyone to do this you can send it to me.

Great post Bob. :cheers:
 
234 posts and I think only one poster mentioned the additives. All modern 2 stroke lubes are loaded with metal based soaps and smoke suppressants. So it would not surprise me if what looks like carbon deposits also contains calcium from the soaps.

The quickest way to check this would be to stick a small chip under an electron microscope and perform micro X-ray analysis. The Ca and other metals will stick out like dog privates. If you can't get anyone to do this you can send it to me.

Bob the reason no one said much is because this is simply another oil thread. I posted this some time ago, but If you guys want to really learn something about oil have a look. :cheers:

http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/653774
 
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234 posts and I think only one poster mentioned the additives. All modern 2 stroke lubes are loaded with metal based soaps and smoke suppressants. So it would not surprise me if what looks like carbon deposits also contains calcium from the soaps.

The quickest way to check this would be to stick a small chip under an electron microscope and perform micro X-ray analysis. The Ca and other metals will stick out like dog privates. If you can't get anyone to do this you can send it to me.

I don't think the additives were overlooked Bob, just implicit. You can't change the mix ratio for a given oil without changing the additive concentrations. That's the real issue with deviating from the manufacturer's recommendation for mix ratios...you run the risk of having way too much (or too little) of the additive package.

It is possible that certain durations or combustion chamber shapes might produce different burn profiles that would favor deposition of one additive over another, such that a given saw might "like" one oil better than another, but I don't think the issue is as fine-grained as that. Whatever the source of the deposition, too much is still too much.
 
I don't think the additives were overlooked Bob, just implicit. You can't change the mix ratio for a given oil without changing the additive concentrations. That's the real issue with deviating from the manufacturer's recommendation for mix ratios...you run the risk of having way too much (or too little) of the additive package.

I'm not convinced the manufacturers know what's going. Stihl's recommendation is still the daft . . . "50:1 when using Stihl Lube and 25:1 for everyone else". Or maybe there's another agenda - now that does turn it onto oil thread. :)
 
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