Carbs are carbs let them be carbs

[stihlbro]

If you can't accept technology in modern chainsaws.......use a hand saw or axe.

If you don't like new designs, remember technology is how we can communicate in this thread. Just say'n.:greenchainsaw:

 

[Naked Arborist]

"I will agree, the jury is out on AT/M-tronic, who knows what a 2-3 year sit on the shelf will do to these "gizmos"."

That was my point. Will they be "fixable" or will you be buying a new carb. Will take 6 months of sitting? With todays fuel it will be more like 2 months. Saws stored in a heated area will have a better chance of this happening through evaporation of the fuel. Time will tell. Next spring will shed some light on this.

 

[RandyMac]

If you can't accept technology in modern chainsaws.......use a hand saw or axe.

Great another wiener


Or stay with proven technology, plenty of it works just fine.

 

[sachsmo]

If you can't accept technology in modern chainsaws.......use a hand saw or axe.

If you don't like new designs, remember technology is how we can communicate in this thread. Just say'n.:greenchainsaw:

And to think the biggest trees in the PNW were taken down with just that.


I for one did NOT wait in line for the I5, hell don't have the time or use for one either.

What this world needs is a reversal of "technology", and a return to REALITY!

 

[Naked Arborist]

Great another wiener


Or stay with proven technology, plenty of it works just fine.

I like modern tec. Just fuel inject them already and be DONE with it. No "band-aid" will ever fix the "rich-lean" issues.

Have been looking into what it would take to fuel inject small 2 smoke engines. The parts are still a bit too big as of now and bit pricey. Brad probably has the head or knows one that could map the software.

If you want to run oil fuels the tec is already here to do four strokes and the kits are already out there in use. I dought a modern saw would take to oil DI but, and old beast may be just the thing to give it a whirl. The old dog has most of what you need to run modern oil DI setups already there.

 

[stihlbro]

Great another wiener


Or stay with proven technology, plenty of it works just fine.

Could you define"proven technology" or "another weiner"??

I cannot say i agree with new methods of chainsaws, my point is not to be so opinionated on new development as this is new technology, it takes a few years to prove justifiable. Just so you know, I dont own a chainsaw that is not tuneable with a screwdriver how ever I only have one vehicle that has a carburetor. To me, if i could convert the carb to fuel injection within a reasonable price range, believe me I would.
The market has to provide a product that meets different standards of today,not 1970.
Chainsaws--carbs are great! Thats what we are use to.
Vehicles???Carbs or fuel injection, depends on the era you grew up in. It has been covered already in a previous post.

 

[Naked Arborist]

Could you define"proven technology" or "another weiner"??

I cannot say i agree with new methods of chainsaws, my point is not to be so opinionated on new development as this is new technology, it takes a few years to prove justifiable. Just so you know, I dont own a chainsaw that is not tuneable with a screwdriver how ever I only have one vehicle that has a carburetor. To me, if i could convert the carb to fuel injection within a reasonable price range, believe me I would.
The market has to provide a product that meets different standards of today,not 1970.
Chainsaws--carbs are great! Thats what we are use to.
Vehicles???Carbs or fuel injection, depends on the era you grew up in. It has been covered already in a previous post.

Don't be so sure about that "era" thing. Fuel injection hit the US market in 1953 and was perfected in a mechanical version overseas by the early 60's.

This is NOT "new tec" we discussed the 80's already.

 

[RandyMac]

Could you define"proven technology" or "another weiner"??

You being a wiener is self evident.

Proven tech works, has simple fixes, has long term durability. My personal level of tech is 1970, so what.
If the old Ford has no sparky, 10-15 minutes max to diagnose and fix, no laptop needed, same with my McCullochs. Sure you need to pay attention to adjustments, maintenance is the key to all machinery, any prudent operator knows this and knows his machines. Anything that requires electricity will fail, whether you can fix it in the field and keep on keepin' on is the question. I remember when CDI came along, with a more than noticeable failure rate.

 

[one.man.band]

You being a wiener is self evident.

Proven tech works, has simple fixes, has long term durability. My personal level of tech is 1970, so what.
If the old Ford has no sparky, 10-15 minutes max to diagnose and fix, no laptop needed, same with my McCullochs. Sure you need to pay attention to adjustments, maintenance is the key to all machinery, any prudent operator knows this and knows his machines. Anything that requires electricity will fail, whether you can fix it in the field and keep on keepin' on is the question. I remember when CDI came along, with a more than noticeable failure rate.

agree with most.
points were/are simple. carried a spare $5 points and 2$ condenser with me, and still do on my motorcycles. burning a set of points and/or worse, taking out a coil due to a bad condenser sucked then and it still sucks.

if anyone drove a dodge in the '80's..... they would know what a ballast resistor is. if and when they went bad, you better of had a spare in the glove-box, or had comfortable shoes.

how about magneto points corroding? or a magneto in wet weather?

hopefully things are getting more reliable.

will i get rid of my point and magneto stuff? no way. sometimes its the old tech puts you there in the first place.

-omb

 

[stihlbro]

Thank you randymac, now we go from electronic carbs to no spark on a 1970's component. I'm am trying to stay open to new features of saws and you tend to stay in the later proven technology. Call me a wiener as you wish, but could you help I'm having trouble adjusting the quadrajet on my saw, the 4 barrell won't open when I call on it.


I honestly don't want to get in Internet arguing, so, after this post I will bow out of the topic.

 

[RandyMac]

Thank you randymac, now we go from electronic carbs to no spark on a 1970's component. I'm am trying to stay open to new features of saws and you tend to stay in the later proven technology. Call me a wiener as you wish, but could you help I'm having trouble adjusting the quadrajet on my saw, the 4 barrell won't open when I call on it.


I honestly don't want to get in Internet arguing, so, after this post I will bow out of the topic.

Just pointing out that anything electronic/electric will fail, that would include AT carbs. Can you fix one in the field?

Wieners always bow out.

 

[Anthony_Va.]

Just pointing out that anything electronic/electric will fail, that would include AT carbs. Can you fix one in the field?

Wieners always bow out.

Anything electric can/will fail eventually. Of course I can't fix mine in the field but thats why they make back up saws. Carbs can tear up whether they're electric or not.

An electric carb also allows a chainsaw to run at optimum tune anytime, anywhere. A manual carb can never do that unless you're turning screws every 15 minutes.

This tech, like has been mentioned already, has been proven many years ago. Just not in chainsaws. It's a good design and it works. There's plenty of m-tron 441s being used to fell trees everyday without problems.

 

[TK]

Nobody seems to care to mention the digital ignition coils and electronic ignition, just the electronic controlled carburetors....

 

[stihlbro]

Nobody seems to care to mention the digital ignition coils and electronic ignition, just the electronic controlled carburetors....

I hear ya!

 

[kwhite1271]

So, I keep hearing about all this hot start procedure (on new saws) and how if done correctly they will start in 1-2 pulls. Not sure what thats all about. My old technology saws if tuned right, will start in a quarter pull to half pull every time when hot. When they don't, something is wrong!

 

[Anthony_Va.]

So, I keep hearing about all this hot start procedure (on new saws) and how if done correctly they will start in 1-2 pulls. Not sure what thats all about. My old technology saws if tuned right, will start in a quarter pull to half pull every time when hot. When they don't, something is wrong!

Not sure what thats about either. My 441C will start in 1 pull everytime when warm or hot. Two pulls everytime when cold, sometimes only one. I've never owned a saw that would start so easy.

 

[Chris-PA]

My personal level of tech is 1970, so what.

I agree - so what? Use something made in 1970 if you want. Just stop whining about everything that happened since.

Technology for the sake of technology is pointless - worse than pointless - and irritates me. But if it provides an advantage it can be worth the added complexity. The DuraSpark ignition systems that replaced the old breaker points systems in the Ford of yours were major improvements in performance and reliability. And I don't know why you guys take extra sets of points - you don't have a point file? I still do, but I only use it on my tractor, as the points in that get oxidized regularly and then it doesn't work. Meanwhile, I haven't had an electronic ignition fail in a couple of decades - except for that one in my McCulloch last year.

 

[RandyMac]

I agree - so what? Use something made in 1970 if you want. Just stop whining about everything that happened since.

Technology for the sake of technology is pointless - worse than pointless - and irritates me. But if it provides an advantage it can be worth the added complexity. The DuraSpark ignition systems that replaced the old breaker points systems in the Ford of yours were major improvements in performance and reliability. And I don't know why you guys take extra sets of points - you don't have a point file? I still do, but I only use it on my tractor, as the points in that get oxidized regularly and then it doesn't work. Meanwhile, I haven't had an electronic ignition fail in a couple of decades - except for that one in my McCulloch last year.

Not whining LoL!! Just pointing out that new isn't always better and goes through teething. I suffered through the cars and trucks of the '80s, it wasn't until the mid '90s that things really improved.

I'll stick to what I understand and can work on. Carry on gentlemen and wieners.

 

[Naked Arborist]

Boy this tread got a lot of buzz right off the bat and then it died :msp_sleep:. Kinda like E20 in a saw LMAO! If these M-trons and such do all they claim they can and last for 5 years with all things considered then I'll be impressed. You have to remember carbs in one form or another have been around for over a hundred years. The best part is most of them that were maintained and serviced are still working A-OK.

This is what the new "E-Carbs" (yes that was added to my dictionary claim to be able to overcome in the real world. E-10 or more is something only time will tell how bad it damages them.

I don't quite understand how they do all this without more sensors like is available on a fuel injection system. Seems to me they are missing some components. Remember I'm just some dumb Piney from the woods.

1. constant A-F ratio? OK then, by what means?
If they...
2. can adjust for atmospheric pressure? how?
3. can adjust for humidity? how?
4. can adjust for temperature differential? how?
5. can adjust the actual ignition timing discharge sequence

6. load requirements I'll give them if they can perform all these other task smoothly and consistently.

Remember now this might be asked by another dumb Hick like myself. all the electronic gurus please "essplane" to us how they do all this with two parts? Oh btw only one actually moves the other provides only feedback via electric. OK three parts counting the chip set


Oh I can't wait to see what these answers are... otstir:oke:opcorn:

 

[Anthony_Va.]

Boy this tread got a lot of buzz right off the bat and then it died :msp_sleep:. Kinda like E20 in a saw LMAO! If these M-trons and such do all they claim they can and last for 5 years with all things considered then I'll be impressed. You have to remember carbs in one form or another have been around for over a hundred years. The best part is most of them that were maintained and serviced are still working A-OK.

This is what the new "E-Carbs" (yes that was added to my dictionary claim to be able to overcome in the real world. E-10 or more is something only time will tell how bad it damages them.

I don't quite understand how they do all this without more sensors like is available on a fuel injection system. Seems to me they are missing some components. Remember I'm just some dumb Piney from the woods.

1. constant A-F ratio? OK then, by what means?
If they...
2. can adjust for atmospheric pressure? how?
3. can adjust for humidity? how?
4. can adjust for temperature differential? how?
5. can adjust the actual ignition timing discharge sequence

6. load requirements I'll give them if they can perform all these other task smoothly and consistently.

Remember now this might be asked by another dumb Hick like myself. all the electronic gurus please "essplane" to us how they do all this with two parts? Oh btw only one actually moves the other provides only feedback via electric. OK three parts counting the chip set


Oh I can't wait to see what these answers are... otstir:oke:opcorn:

I'm not much of an electronics whizz either. Not even remotely close really.

I was under the assumption that it was alot simpler then it seems. It just senses the running condition of the saw and adjust accordingly. Does it so many time per second. So its basically like theres a little man with a screwdriver inside constantly tuning the saw.

So it doesnt matter whether it's temperature, elevation, humidity, whatever. The saw doesnt care. If it's lean it sends fuel and if it's rich it sends air.