Chain Sharpening for the 1000th Time

[Lumberjack]

Here we go...


I use Stihl chainsaws, and Stihl chains, and I use them for work, not for racing. I use the proper files.

I know that you hold the file perpendicular to the bar, and at a 30 degree angle.

I want to get good at sharpening (duh!!).

I would like for someone to kinda coach me. I can post pics, but I am not sure if that would help.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Hey Carl,

What exactly are you having trouble with?

Did any of the past threads help you out?

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by Lumberjack
... I use them for work, not for racing.

Hahahahahaha! Glad you cleared THAT up for us, Carl!

Hahahah! I'm sorry... I don't mean to.....

Hahahahaha!!!

OK, I'm all right now... :angel:

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Re: Re: Chain Sharpening for the 1000th Time

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
Hahahahahaha! Glad you cleared THAT up for us, Carl!

Hahahah! I'm sorry... I don't mean to.....

Hahahahaha!!!

OK, I'm all right now... :angel:

The 025 doesn't qualify as a racing saw..............huh!!!

 

[Stumper]

Carl, This thread is deep in the archives but it has pics(lousy ones ) and an explanation.
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5068&highlight=best+sharpening

 

[Lumberjack]

That must have been the "shock of the century" when I said that it was for work not play. I have an 044, 025, and the 200. Soon I plan on gettin an 066, probably within a month.

I read the thread, it helped, but still some ?'s.

One question is, what make the chain self feed? Raker heigth and the top plate?

Do I hold the file parallel to the ground or do I have a 10 degree (handle down)?

What size file do I uses on the 200? I think a 5/32"

Shouldnt the top plate angle be parallel to the witness mark?

What is the best depth gauges to use?... I have 3(.025, .030, .035) but they dont fit the 025's chain (i run saftey chain on it and the 200, but not anymore).

Thats all for now...

 

[bandmiller]

Lumberjack--Why don't you get a good grinder, start each day with all the correct angles,then just touch up with the file following the grinder angles.Filers tend to leave the chain on the bar too long without cleaning groove and clutch area.

 

[JohnL]

The file should be set at the same angle as the top plate cutting edge when looking down from above, probably about 30 degrees away from perpendicular to the bar. The file touches the top plate edge all the way along it's length, being parallel to it.

As far as the angle to the ground, I lack the skil to judge 10 degrees up or down so just try to keep it parrallel with the ground.

 

[tony marks]

i sympathise.. i got the little roller guide from joker .. thing changed from an b-
sharpener to eventually an a grade working chain sharpener..u can buy them at some shops ..i know husk puts out a version..it simple to use and except for e mabe once in the chains life ,running it thru the grinder to get gullets etc.,,will give u an good cutting chain..wont work realgood on safety chain.. this device also acts as an hand trainer .. now i dont use it as much ..good luck..

 

[Chainsaw_Maniac]

Maddens had a really good section on how to sharpen a chain. It's 100x better to learn it from someone in real life than trying to learn it off the internet cuz you can only communicate so much with words without an actual demonstration.

I find that 9 out of 10 people who own a chainsaw can't sharpen them properly, so learn from someone that knows what they're doing. The esential things to remeber are:

• Hold the file at the right angle both horizontally and vertically.
• Always file every tooth equally and be especially careful to file both the right and left side equally hard and at an equal angle both horizontally and vertically.
• Only file the rakers if you have a guage (The more you file the rakers the more agressive the saw becomes. If the rakers are to agressive or they are filed unevenly then the saw will vibrate to much, cut like hell, and possibly even stall).
• One of the most important things that beginners forget is that you must never ever hit dirt, a wire or a stone with the saw. Once you have done this it will take a very skilled sharpener or someone with a grinder to get it back to perfect working order.
  
  You can tell that you've "rocked out" the chain if you notice you've hit something, you notice the chain is very suddenly cutting a lot worse from one cut to the nest, or you look at points of the teeth very closely and notice worn off tips or damage.
  
  Beginners tend to rock out chains, then sharpen them normally and wonder why it doesn't cut. the reson is that the chain has been damaged so much that you need to grind off a lot of metal to get it down to where it's still good.
  
• Another mistake is that people file certain teeth that they consider dull and not file all the teeth evenly.
  
• Another mistake is thinking that if they file the rakers down farther than they are supposed to or make the tooth angle really pionty it will cut better. That wont work cuz factory recommendations are the best way.

Excuse me, I've been rambling on again. lol.

 

[glens]

If you get the Elux roller guide you'll have to modify it for use on Stihl chain because the angle at which the top plate recedes is steeper on the Oregon chain it was made for.  And like Tony says, it won't work at all on safety chain which has a ramp-topped driver link. 

Get an Oregon drop-center .025 depth gauge and it should work on all the chain you've got.  The ones which have the gauge in the center produce better results in my opinion.  For your non-safety chain you can successfully use one of the Elux individual-tooth depth gauges on Stihl chain, and I recommend you do.  It will progressively lower the depth gauge as the tooth recedes.  You can approximate that function with the drop-center gauge by using it on a more curved part of the bar as the chain ages.

There's not a thing in the world wrong with using a clamped-to-the-file gauge to ensure proper file depth.&nbsp; Holding the file level is fine on all types of chain.&nbsp; Absolute consistency of the file angles (both side as viewed from above and vertical as viewed from the end of the bar) from one tooth to the next is not nearly as important as maintaining them perfectly <i>during</i> the stroke.&nbsp; If the file changes it's attitude relative to the tooth any at all during the stroke you'll not get the cutting edges as straight or sharp as they should be.

Tighten the chain more than you'd want it for cutting while you sharpen it and that will go a very long way towards helping you produce good results.&nbsp; Don't fubar any bearings or anything, but whatever you can do to help the tooth remain motionless during the stroke will be to your benefit.

Whether one tooth is slightly longer or the top plate is angle slightly differently than any other isn't nearly as important as having the file move steadily against an unmoving tooth.&nbsp; If you use the individual-tooth depth gauge from Elux you really don't need to worry about cutter lengths being the same, but if you use the type of depth gauge that sits atop multiple teeth you should have greater consistency between them.

Practice consistency of stroke.&nbsp; Once you get good at that you'll better be able to experiment with angles and such to find values which best suit you.

Glen

 

[Typhoon]

Chainsaw maniac, I agree with most of your recommendations, very good stuff.. except for the dirt part. You mentioned that you must NEVER hit dirt. You definately should avoid it as much as possible, but depending on the condition of the landing and the wood laying there, often times dirt cannot be avoided. Sometimes you just have to cut dirty wood. Dirt will dull a chain fast, but not immediately. Especially if you are using a round ground chisel as opposed to a square ground. The round ground will hold an edge a little longer in the dirt. There have been days where I have cut for a few hours straight in dirty wood, hitting the dirt often and still have a decent chain edge. You should try and keep it out of the dirt, but I don't walk away from a log just because the bark is packed with dirt. Sometimes you have to hit the dirt...

-Brad

 

[Stumper]

Carl, As Glens mentioned-file handle "parrallel to the ground" will work on all chain. My method is to file with the handle UP slightly -pushing file down and away from heel to toe of the top plate. This is contrary to published instructions. It works VERY well.If you play with an old chain and the file you will notice that handle down /filing up make a more even top plate but handle up/filing down will make a sharper point on the leading edge of the top plate
If you have witness marks on the tooth it is easy to follow them.
5/32 is correct for 3/8ths low profile or Picco micro.
Art Martin has explained that the ideal depth gauge height changes as the tooth is filed back --but an .025 gap willl work the entire time. Lots of pros go for bigger gaps and a deeper bite but rougher cutting and more chain/bar wear results.

 

[TonyM]

Two things I think worth mentioning. One, as you file, the chain will likely tip in the bar groove, depending on how tight your bar is, filing handle up a little will actually keep the file perpindicular to the chain. Two, I never think to say this because it's second nature to me, but hold both ends of the file, one in each hand. You can control the stroke much better that way. Okay, so I thought of one more. Three, since both hands are on the file it is imparative to hold the saw firmly. I find a bench vise works well in the shop, and a stump vise in the woods.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

I thought that Stihl called for a 9/64 file on their 3/8 Lo-Pro Picco chain.

 

[Hemlock]

I'll use a cheater every time if I can to hold the saw still so I can use both hands on the file. Out in the woods you can use a swell butt or a stump. On a log I cut a flat spot parallel to the ground and cut about a 2" deep kerf about an inch or two from the end like I was going to trim the end off. Then just shut the saw off and dog it into the kerf and stick a bar wrench into the other end of the kerf lengthways and behind the bar so it holds the bar tight in the cut and supports it further out away from the log or stump. After you file as many teeth as you can just pull the bar wrench, pull the saw and put the bar nose into the near side of the kerf and push it back through and dog it in again and stuff the bar wrench in the other end. you'll find that it advances the chain just enough to start over again. Hard to explain but it really is a simple process that acts just like a wide jawed vise without having to pack around any special tools.

 

[Lumberjack]

I am learning.....

I am not new to running chainsaws, I have been doin that for what would seem like forever. Rather I am just tryin to get better at sharpening. I can touch up the edge, but I want to be able to get it back to the factory edge or better.

Would posting pics, short vids make it easier for yall experts to critique me?


Stumper, are you saying that you file with the handle higher than the end of the file, so you are filing somewhat downward? What degree would you say this was? 10degrees?

Hemlock, you file with the bar on its side? I understand exactly what you are saying, but did you mean the cut is perpindicular to the ground ( like | ) or did you mean what you said like this (--- )? It would make more sense to me to have it like ( | ) because the saw would hold more steady than on its side like a diving board.?.

 

[Stumper]

Carl, YES! ( That is for the question addressed to me-I have no idea about Bro. Hemlock)

 

[WRW]

One thing Chainsaw_Maniac touched on is thinking you're done when you are not. After you've finished with your sharpening hold the top of the bar up level with your eye looking down the chain toward the motor with light source over your shoulder. If you see any shine on any of the leading edges of the teeth, you need to take off some more metal.

 

[Lumberjack]

I have heard of checkin like that...


Today I bought a new chain, to get the feel for what looks right (gettin the file lined up with the factory edge). The slight downward angle makes all the diff...


Now that I can see the how the file is to be held, it should be much easier to get better results.