Chain Sharpening Methods

[django]

Hi, This thread is being started as a (natural) outgrowth of the "economy chain grinders" thread I started after becoming frustrated with my own forays into hand sharpening.( check this thread to get ("up to speed") My initial introduction into this came in the form of a "clamp-on" file guide. This is probably why I ended up not using the required pressure when freehand filing. There is no practical way to apply proper pressure with the clamp on style, at least, not as far as I can tell.
The reason I didn't just title the thread " hand filing" is there are prob. many inventive ways to get a chain "sharp" that I haven't thought of. I have tried several with mixed results. One of my favorite, and I am going out on a limb here, opening myself up for ridicule, is to use a carbide burr in a die grinder. This has been maligned in other posts, but I don't care, it works very well, once you get the hang of it. Since Crofter's post in th grinder thread about "effective pressure" I have sharpened a couple of chains by hand with very nice ( for me ) results. Any filers out there be willing to give an A-Z course in filing? I've said it before and I'll say it again, This forum is a gold mine for guys like me who don't cut for a living but are still interested in learning as much as possible. And the willingness of forum members to give their time and experience is phenominal.
Thanks,
Django.
P.S., Anyone want to buy a clamp-on file guide?

 

[eyolf]

While many do not like the clamp-on style guides, I do. I think it makes a difference which one you use...I like the Granberg best, Oregon's old-style were OK, but there are some real crappy ones out there.
Just for giggles, I timed myself recently resharpening 72 drivers of Oregon 73LG dulled from cutting muddy wood, and I was able to refurbish in just over 9 minutes, counting unloading the saw, walking into the shop, clamping the bar in a vise, clamping on the jig, filing and removing the saw agian. No depth gage work was required.

I don't know what you mean by pressure...you can push as hard as you want in the jig, just like freehand. Are you hoping to get by with a worn file? On thing to watch out for is to NEVER, ever pull the file backwards against the work. One backwards stroke is about all it takes to wreck a file.

I have been using a Granberg file jig since 1980, I am on my 3rd, having lost one and worn one out. Some might say that it has become a crutch, that I should work on freehand filing, but it works for me.

 

[don]

Chain filing methods

Would like to see a picture of your carbide burr in a die grinder in action. Dies are pretty hard materials and I understand a carbide materials ability to make a grind.

Would you say it gives a better finish than a conventional grinding wheel or hand file?

How do you acheive the proper alignment?


How much do you want for the hand filer?

 

[django]

Don, The file guide for sale was somewhat tongue in cheek. I will give it to my bro. in law if I get rid of it. Eyolf, I don't pull my files.
As a Journeyman Toolmaker, file technique is something I am familiar with, but a valid point nonetheless. Perhaps my filing woes came from the mindset that if you want to deburr or break an edge, you use a file. If you want to remove material you use a machine tool. I am sure there is nothing special about Sandvik chain, but to sharpen mine with just a few strokes takes more pressure than you can apply with the handle on the end of a file, I need a hand at both ends. if this is how they are meant to be used, why isn't there a handle at both ends? My clamp-on is made by Lazer Sharp. It s kind of flimsy, but not too bad. Granberg " invented" the clamp-on guide, so I prob should have bought that one. As to the die grinder, die grinder is a generic term for small, hand held , in-line grinders ( or motors, if you will,) that run at high speeds. In and of themselves they have nothing to do with the hardness of a die, punch or tool. Most tool steels can be hardened to a Rockwell of 60c max. give or take a few points. ( I don't know the rockwell c scale hardness of a saw tooth, but I would guess around 35-45 by how it files not counting the chrome, of course.) While carbide (silicon, tungsten, etc..)
Rockwells around 80. So the burr lasts a very long time, and doesn't want to burn or blue the tooth. All I do, is lay the burr ( of the proper dia.) in the tooth with the grinder not running, match the angle of the burr to the tooth and trigger the grinder. It is important to note that the rotation of the burr is such that it does not want to climb out of the tooth. The finish is beautiful. Again, the proper burr style is important. I use "double cutting" ball nose burrs. In a pinch I'll use single cutting. It helps that I have a Milwaukee electric die grinder. This is a fairly large very stable tool. I have not, and prob. will not use an air powered grinder for this work. I can post a picture of this if you would still like to see.
Django

 

[Crofter]

File life

When you file the saw with bar oil on the chain the teeth of the file fill with a crud of oil and filings and it starts to slide instead of cut and this will ruin a file prematurely same as riding on the backstroke. I think in this case it would help to have a bottle of some solvent to rinse the file often. You can use 2 hands on the file guide if you have the saw clamped. A few drops of oil on the guide prevents binding. I keep some files prim and proper and some 2nd rate ones for cleaning gullets etc. Once a file has lost its willingness to cut it makes a lot of burr on the edges and doesnt give a sharp chain. If you buy them by the dozen they are only a buck.

Frank

 

[jokers]

Hi Steve, you definitely need a solid hold on the saw and two hands on the file to get a good cut. I have to admit that I am the person who pointed everyone to the other thread where people were using die grinders and burrs and such, and I may have even made a derogatory comment or two on this practice because the image that came to mind for me was very disturbing, but considering the skills you have, I may have been premature to judge. I`d be willing to bet that the edge produced is beautiful. Seems like with your skills that you could fabricate an adjustable rigid mount for your grinder and put everyone to shame. I believe that Harbor Freight and Bailey`s have adjustable bar mounted jigs with electric grinders mounted to them that look as if they would be head and shoulders above the typical freehand arrangement using a Dremel, etc.. The ones I have seen are designed to use stones, but I can`t see why they wouldn`t accomodate 1/8" shaft burrs. I have found the Oregon style clamp on jigs to be extremely accurate when used with a little attention to detail, but they are cumbersome compared to free hand filing. I don`t advise using any cutting oils, lubes, or solvents for sharpening by any conventional means, they just seem to plug the files and wheels. I just rap the file against the guide bar and rotate it after every tooth or two, Good luck in finding what works best for you. Russ

 

[don]

zPlease show me the grind !

I'd like to see pictures and specs.

Again, the proper burr style is important. I use "double cutting" ball nose burrs. In a pinch I'll use single cutting. It helps that I have a Milwaukee electric die grinder

Where do you get a "double cutting" ball nose burrs?

Prior to this site I hand filed. Then after reading all that was involved I still hand file but when I "hit" something or need to even up each plate I use a clamp on.

Was wondering about a dremel type sharpener but didn't like the "vibration" and radial variance since I never used a electric sharpener before. Tried those stone wheels that came with the dremel and reall screwed up a couple of teeth!

With alll the other plethora of tools all I need is another one ... chainsaw grinder! igure someone out there knows how to convert or bolt an existing "power tool" into a home made machine to sharpen a chain.

 

[django]

Stihl "Topic"

Ever see/use one of these? I don't think they're made anymore.
Guy at work says they work very slick.
Don, I post a pic soon.
Django

 

[bwalker]

Where do you get a "double cutting" ball nose burrs?

www.jlindustrial.com

 

[JimL]

Re: File life

Originally posted by Crofter
When you file the saw with bar oil on the chain the teeth of the file fill with a crud of oil and filings and it starts to slide instead of cut and this will ruin a file prematurely same as riding on the backstroke. I think in this case it would help to have a bottle of some solvent to rinse the file often. You can use 2 hands on the file guide if you have the saw clamped. A few drops of oil on the guide prevents binding. I keep some files prim and proper and some 2nd rate ones for cleaning gullets etc. Once a file has lost its willingness to cut it makes a lot of burr on the edges and doesnt give a sharp chain. If you buy them by the dozen they are only a buck.

Frank

I buy my files 144 at a time, 12 dozen.

I also keep a couple of each size on my truck too in case someone else wants their saw filed.

 

[treeclimber165]

I've mentioned it before, here's a cheap and easy way to keep those files protected while toting them in your toolbox or glovebox. Less than a buck and my files are always clean and dry. A file that has been riding loose in a toolbox for 2 weeks is garbage.
Another benefit is that I can lay the tube under the saw bar to steady the bar and keep the chain off the dirt/tailgate/etc. while sharpening.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Most casual users find filing a clumbsy and tedious chore, especially when using new fangled filing guides.
Remember when we first learned to tie our own shoelaces? Well filing is sorta like that at first.
File often with one gentle deliberate stroke. Dont wait till the cutters are totally fookulated before filing, rather look forward to doing it.
Just as a butcher wont butch with a dull knife, loggers shouldnt log with a dull chain. Guard your chain jealously by filing often without removing more metal than necessary. Easy does it.
Looking at someones chain will speak volumes with regards to their experience or willingness to learn.
Some people are just plain hammer fisted or oblivious to how things work, but thats their thing and all the talking in the world wont change anything, but sometimes tidbits of info will creep in thru the cracks.
John

 

[Tzed250]

the future

I would think that a 5-axis CNC mill would do a great job.

 

[django]

Hey treeclimber, all bunched together like that, don't your "protected" files want to file each other as their bounced around??