Actually , Amsoil has recommended "Saber Professional" to not be mixed any richer than 50:1 in a bulletin a year ago !
Chainsaw 2 Cycle Oil Poll
- Thread starter TN Cattleman
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Proper oil & tune you can run 16:1 with no carbon , however yeah , why waste all that expensive synthetic oil in the mix can lol.
It doesn't take much effort to go to the Jaso website to verify that you are indeed mistaken.
The sump sizes are much larger on HD diesel engines.
So are the engines.
I'm pretty sure that sump size is more related to the size of the engine and the need for cooling the oil than it is for a need to reduce oil change intervals.
Actually it is both , larger sumps , oil filters ×2. equals much more volume , which allows cooler & less degradation of the quality of the oil .
Not really. Compare the sump on a 5.9 cummins vs a Dodge 360. Both the same size displacement, but the cummins has a nearly 3 gallon sump while the 360 is 5-6 quarts going off memory.
The oil filter on the Cummins is also 3 times the size of the one on the 360.
Just about every medium through heavy duty engine has heat exchangers for cooling the oil, sump capacity has basically zero to do with cooling, basically the amount the engine needs to keep things lubricated/pressurized/actuated. (Since we use oil for more then just lubrication in nearly all engines.) Plus a marginal amount of make up oil. Usually there isn't much in the pan when an engine is running, application dependant. Some engine have capacities much larger then they would ever need just to deal with the angles they may have to work at. Off road equipment usually fits into this category.
Filtration for long oil change intervals is also vastly different then the micro filter on automotive application. Even diesels in light duty applications don't have the room for large high efficiency filters like anything medium or heavy duty. There are 3-4 filters on some of the 12L+ engines I work on, all designed for extended change intervals. Cars/pickups 1 filter thats barely able to do its job for 5k miles let alone 25k miles.
In addition diesel engine oils are formulated with much more robust additive packages and higher quality base oils of higher viscosity. Although the present trend is toward less additives, lower viscosity and even higher quality base oils. This is driven largely by EPA/CARB emmissions regulations. Mettalic additives are hard on catalytic converters, DPF's and SCR's
The 617 in my username has the same recommended OCI whether running dino or synthetic oil, precisely because of the soot loading. That's even though the factory filter has a built in deep filtration bypass filter element that's ~2x the size of the full flow section of the filter. Old school mechanical IDI diesel is a sooty mess, hard on oil.
The first generation EGR engines where probably worse as it pertains to oil soot loading. With more advanced exhaust after treatment EGR volume is now much less on new diesels.
Actually , the 360 /5.9 litre gas engine takes 5 us quarts with filter . The Cummins 5.9 of mine takes 12 quarts without my 2 bypass filter cartridges & auxiliary oil cooler package . P.S. I believe there was a Magnum 360 series offered that had a larger sump pan that took 6 or 7 quart with filter .
Should be more the 12 quarts with 2 filters. Even just the longer fleetguard filter I run on my 12 valve pushs the oil fill to nearly 13 quarts.
It's not that much better with the dpf. Still puts a huge load on the oil and extra soot load to boot. Add in the engines that use the extra injector or exhaust stroke fuel doesing it taxes the oil even harder.
My 617 takes 8 quarts, and it's only a 3L. Even with the bypass filter, that's to have enough oil in the system to hold enough contaminants to last for a reasonable OCI.
My 5.9 24v Cummins recommends 7000 mile oil change intervals from the factory 1 yr later the intervals from the factory changed to 15000 miles lol . Oil technology or engine technology ? The Dealers up North here always utilized Shell Rotella . Sean your absolutely right on the heavy equipment & sump volumes , all the skidders & tree farming equipment I serviced back in the day had internal surge baffles & added volume capacity sumps for the extreme service & uneven ground they performed within brother . I'am rather dated with heavy diesel , since I retired out in the late 70's . I 'am impressed with how well the new 5w-40 diesel oils are standing up especially within turbo charged units , which have there stand alone service requirements .
I've haven't seen a second gen with a factory recommended change interval of 15k miles. Must have been a tsb or something for it? Most all the cummins I owned and ran over the years I did 10k mile changes. The 07 3500 had the oil meter in the pan. It pretty much agreed with test results, showing ~10-12k miles I was nearing the end of useful life on the oil. Truck idled a decent bit being a service truck so no surprise. It was like 6k miles before the emissions crap fell off. Always went 10k on the 12 valves.
I've been running some version of a 5w-40 for quite a few years now. Worked out fine so far. Just got a lot more expensive over the years.
What's reasonable? Even my vw tdi book says 6k miles on Dino oil if it meets their 503? Whatever spec oil. Which that spec had long since been surpassed with newer oils.
without the bypass set up Sean . Both the 12 valve & 24 valve had the same 12 us qt sump capacity stock . I'am currently just over 13 . I add a quart usually between intervals (10,000 mi) . I run a lot of around town plowing then , hit the highway for seasonal Moose hunting . Likely time for a new pan gasket also lol.
Obviously what's considered reasonable will vary by person, but the manual on my 617 says 5k miles.
Ok, that makes sense then, I have this extra long filter in my 12 valve and it will hold right under 13qt with the filter full. Can't say it uses more then a quart or so between changes. Usually more dripping out the crank case breather then actual consumption I'd guess. Twins breath heavy....
