Chainsaw 2 Cycle Oil Poll

[bwalker]

Comment on this, if you will, as to whether anything he does is indefensible.

I watched the first few minutes...co plate and utter garbage per usual.

 

[Hermio]

Rotella T , which I used for 20 yrs in my Diesel applications was a very fine product . Amsoil Diesel oil does the same & is cheaper as a preferred customer . $13.76 usd. Compared to $14.00 for Rotella . Chevron same , fine product just a little more cost . The overall cost difference is minimal , the extended mileage of a quality synthetic over conventional mineral oils is what jogged my conscience . Why dump out perfectly good oil every 5000 miles . I have all my used oils tested , always has been within spec . Actually a quality synthetic filter is more important . The 2T 100:1 ratio marketing is pushing the envelope . I have utilized Saber @ 70:1 in properly tuned saws & sled engines , in racing environments no issues . However I always recommend no less than 50:1 with any quality oil . I like a little residual oil in the bottom end . Personally I run 44:1 in my Commercial & Ported saws . I pretty well now run Red Armor in all my saws . Dominator was also a fine product for performance saw usage & competitively priced as a preferred customer . Anyhow as for the testing criteria , utube testimonial testing is questionable at best . Real life experience has taught me better !

I agree that youtube testimonials are questionable. But that is not what Project Farm does.

 

[Hermio]

I don't buy it either. In fact it's complete BS and anyone who has viewed a UOA and compared it to a VOA knows this.

I paid for my tests and I stand by what I reported. Yes, you are calling me a liar. But since you do not know me, that just makes you a pompous troll. You present your opinions as unquestionable facts. You make it hard to respect you or to give credibility to anything you say.

 

[Hermio]

I watched the first few minutes...co plate and utter garbage per usual.

Hmm. Methinks that betrays your ignorance.

 

[Hermio]

Yes, we are calling you a liar to be clear.
And you are now changing your statement from your previous post...

I changed nothing. I just gave more detail. You don't know anything about chemistry, clearly. The base number changes as acids are absorbed by the oil. The anti-wear additives and most others do not get "used up". But if the base number starts out very high, it takes a long time for it to fall down to the SAE standard permissible level.

 

[sean donato]

Maybe. I've seen some manufacturers claim a quart per thousand miles oil consumption is fine. Or "fine" anyway. At that rate I'd spin on a new filter every 5000 miles and not change it, too. It's already being changed.

Years ago, Briggs and Stratton did the no oil changes in push mower engine thing. I can't remember the time they called average for the mower to be ran, however they did say about 1/3 of the oil needed changed to keep a minimum of the additives needed for the oil to continue functioning properly. That's quite a bit even ramped up for a small automotive sump capacity, much more then an oil filters worth.

 

[bwalker]

I changed nothing. I just gave more detail. You don't know anything about chemistry, clearly. The base number changes as acids are absorbed by the oil. The anti-wear additives and most others do not get "used up". But if the base number starts out very high, it takes a long time for it to fall down to the SAE standard permissible level.

I know plenty in regards to chemistry and I am well aware of what TBN is.
AW additives most certainly do get used up. As do the calcium and magnesium based detergents that TBN measures.

 

[bwalker]

Hmm. Methinks that betrays your ignorance.

You are aware there industry accepted methods for testing oils? Hint, they don't involve some cull heating oil on a hot plate.

 

[Hermio]

I know plenty in regards to chemistry and I am well aware of what TBN is.
AW additives most certainly do get used up. As do the calcium and magnesium based detergents that TBN measures.

So what is your academic background?

 

[Hermio]

You are aware there industry accepted methods for testing oils? Hint, they don't involve some cull heating oil on a hot plate.

I am aware of that and so is Todd. He says as much. His usual words are something like this: "while these tests do not duplicate exactly the conditions in an engine, they can still provide valuable information". And indeed they do. His oil cooking definitely shows which oils are most volatile. His freezer tests definitely show which oils have the best cold flow characteristics. And his wear scar tests definitely show which oils have the best lubricity. He also sends oils to test labs to show what happens to their composition after testing. Granted, since his tests are short, they composition does not change greatly. But it does show wwhich oils have the highest base number, the highest detergency and the most anti-wear additives.

 

[sean donato]

I dont need to know you to know your a liar.
If you think I am offering opinion than prove me wrong.

I doubt he can. Haven't seen any oil ever go that long without recommendations for being changed for one reason or another, let alone in a diesel engine. I'd possibly believe it in a propane or natural gad engine, but that would be a stretch too. Even then it starts loosing viscosity index, acidity starts going up, magnesium, calcium, zinc, etc start dropping off... ad nauseum at this point. Don't buy his claims one bit.

 

[Hermio]

I dont need to know you to know your a liar.
If you think I am offering opinion than prove me wrong.

Now you are acting illiterate. Do you not know the difference between "your" and "you're"? It is not my job to prove you wrong. You may be right on many of your statements. But since you don't back it up with anything but your own pontifications, it remains opinion until you cite sources. There was once a time when I thought you were a man of knowledge and experience. I have come to doubt that, especially when you resort to calling people liars for stating things you disagree with. And to claim I am lying about tests I actually paid for, well, that is over the top. Some people would call it libel.

 

[bwalker]

I am aware of that and so is Todd. He says as much. His usual words are something like this: "while these tests do not duplicate exactly the conditions in an engine, they can still provide valuable information". And indeed they do. His oil cooking definitely shows which oils are most volatile. His freezer tests definitely show which oils have the best cold flow characteristics. And his wear scar tests definitely show which oils have the best lubricity. He also sends oils to test labs to show what happens to their composition after testing. Granted, since his tests are short, they composition does not change greatly. But it does show wwhich oils have the highest base number, the highest detergency and the most anti-wear additives.

Good, so both of you admit the "test" is garbage. It's a start.
The wear scar tests are worthless for motor oil... zero relevance to what happens in a motor.
Formulating oil isn't as easy as pouring the additives to it. And in fact the opposite is the trend in modern oils and for good reason.

 

[bwalker]

I doubt he can. Haven't seen any oil ever go that long without recommendations for being changed for one reason or another, let alone in a diesel engine. I'd possibly believe it in a propane or natural gad engine, but that would be a stretch too. Even then it starts loosing viscosity index, acidity starts going up, magnesium, calcium, zinc, etc start dropping off... ad nauseum at this point. Don't buy his claims one bit.

Let alone being as good as new like he claimed..
And like you I have looked at plenty of oil analysis results.

 

[jellyroll]

That really isn't too bad. But in your case, if the consumption rate is independent of oil type, it is probably getting past the rings. BTW, my first several cars used about a quart per thousand miles even when they were low mileage. I am frankly astonished that many new vehicles use less than a quart in 10,000 miles. But that has been my experience with the last several vehicles I bought.

Well it only has 353,000 miles on it and runs the best

 

[Hermio]

Good, so both of you admit the "test" is garbage. It's a start.
The wear scar tests are worthless for motor oil... zero relevance to what happens in a motor.
Formulating oil isn't as easy as pouring the additives to it. And in fact the opposite is the trend in modern oils and for good reason.

You need to work on your English comprehension. No one said the tests are garbage. read it again.

 

[bwalker]

Now you are acting illiterate. Do you not know the difference between "your" and "you're"? It is not my job to prove you wrong. You may be right on many of your statements. But since you don't back it up with anything but your own pontifications, it remains opinion until you cite sources. There was once a time when I thought you were a man of knowledge and experience. I have come to doubt that, especially when you resort to calling people liars for stating things you disagree with. And to claim I am lying about tests I actually paid for, well, that is over the top. Some people would call it libel.

I am right... if your suggesting I am not prove it.
It's not my job to do research for your lazy azz.

 

[Hermio]

Let alone being as good as new like he claimed..
And like you I have looked at plenty of oil analysis results.

I did not say it was as good as new. I said it met the specs for new oil. When the oil itself was new, it substantially exceeded the specs. I am saying after 30,000 miles it would have passed the specifications for new oil.

 

[Hermio]

I am right... if your suggesting I am not prove it.
It's not my job to do research for your lazy azz.

Nope. It is your job to prove your claims.

 

[OM617YOTA]

The one that gets me is the soot loading in a diesel. Unless you've added significant aftermarket oil filtration specifically designed to remove soot, there's nothing the oil itself can do to help with that, other than keep it in suspension. You're running grinding paste in your engine by running it that long.