Chainsaw choice- help decision going forward

[computeruser]

Don't buy Chinese stuff where non-Chinese options are available. They are not our friends. They are not even friends to their own people. My 2c.

***************************************************

For the 12-18" hardwood stems and considering your current budget, the Echo 590/16" combo is about ideal. It will be fast enough and have enough grunt to not be frustrating, while still falling within your budget. The short bar makes sharpening go faster and keeps you from sticking the tip of the bar into the dirt and other things that you shouldn't be sticking it into.

Lately, we have been cutting those sort of logs up for firewood procesing, running a mix of saws - ported Husqvarna 543xp/13" at the low end, Stihl 261/16", Husqvarna 550MK2/16", ported Dolmar 5100sh/16", Stihl 400/16", Husqvarna 572/16", and Husqvarna 592/20". They all get the job done, some just get it done a bit faster. For cutting a downed log into pieces for splitting, where you make the same cut every 16" (or whatever your preferred firewood length is), having more power and grunt does make a difference.

For the big logs, the analysis is a bit different. Last year, we were cutting up a bunch of oddball sized logs that were dumped off by a tree service, including some in the >30" range, many being forked crotch pieces. That big stuff cut fine with the Stihl 400/25", Stihl 500/28", Husqarna 572/20", Dolmar 7900/28", and my ported Jonsered-Husqvarna 272/16". Yes, 16". Not everybody agrees, but I'd rather have a big powerhead and a short bar (and sometimes gearing up with an 8-tooth sprocket instead of a 7-tooth) and have to cut from both sides, than have a bar that I cannot lean on without pulling the revs way down. I find this works out to cut faster and be more productive, at least in my experience.

For really big stuff, there is a point where it just isn't going to be practical without heavy equipment. Some years back we had some white oak trunks that were rot-free (but not nail-free, sadly), and at the fat end used every inch of a 60" bar to cut up. They got cut with a Stihl 084/60" and 075/41" Once you flopped a 18" thick round off, it took a Bobcat with pallet forks to get the thing up-ended so we could then go in and quarter (or eighth or more) it so it would be small enough to put through the splitter. The labor and machinery needed to do that work was just not worth it, except for the fact we were having fun finally having a chance to use big CC saws and long bars in the way they were intended.

When I started out in the serious saw game almost 20 years ago, I came here to this site with a similar question to what you are asking. My Stihl 290 wasn't cutting it in the bigger wood, and I wanted to know how much more saw I needed. My question at that time was whether I should be looking at an 044, 046, or 066. I ended up buying a (6.3hp red top) Dolmar 7900 instead, and that proved to be the right choice. Ran a 20" bar on it most of the time, and a 28" for those instances where I needed more bar. I still have that saw and it pulls the 28" with regular, non-skip, chain just fine in anything I ask it to cut.

So in the end, what should you do? If your budget is not firmly limited to $400, I'd go find a clean used Stihl 046 (or 460), or Husqvarna 385/390, and set it up with 16-18" bar, and 32" bar (skip chain for the 046). Now, if your budget is truly limited in the way you originally suggested, I would go buy the Echo 590 and then cut, cut cut, and get good at sharpening, because a sharp chain will help you get the most out of what any saw has to offer, and if you're asking a 60cc saw to do 80cc saw work, it'll need to be sharp. See what you can do with it, and just don't cut what is too tedious to be worthwhile. I really think that the 16" bar and 24" bar (probably with skip chain) is the way to go for a do-all saw if that saw is the 590.

Eventually, you will either figure you that you need to add a bigger saw (90cc+) to your collection to get after the big chunks (bigger than most of what you showed in your pictures), or you will find you can get enough of the medium-large stuff with the saw you have and call it good, being a lot of money ahead of jumping right into the big saws from the get-go.

 

[ericm979]

Wow that looks like a lot of wood. I like dealing with wood like that because I get so many splits from it.

If you can swing it, a 70cc saw and a cant hook would help you process that stuff. Cut it into 16" long rounds (or whatever your split length is) then use the cant hook to tip them up on their side so you can noodle them into chunks small enough to load into your truck. I have a Woodchuck Dual cant hook/peavy (its convertible) and the two points work well to grip big rounds to move them.

Where I am a cord of medium density hardwood like Black oak (which is similar to eastern red oak) saves about $1000 worth of propane. Unlike a lot of things, our propane costs are pretty much in line with other parts of the country. What I'm saying here it that you'll be saving a lot of money burning wood vs heating with propane or oil or electricity. If you have the free cash you can "borrow" from that future savings for equipment to get more wood.

I dunno about the Holzforma recommendation. I bought a MS440 clone and leaked both fuel and oil. Both were just sloppy assembly issues which I fixed but the parts and build quality is just not the same as a real Stihl. It vibrates a lot due to the heavy piston.

 

[EchoShindaiwaMakitaDolmar]

If you can push your budget to the low to mid $600 range, there's the Echo cs620p Pro model, and the Makita ea6100p. Makita quit the gas tools business after about 31 years of owning the German chainsaw maker Dolmar, but there are still some new old stock available here and there.

 

[Bubster]

Wow that looks like a lot of wood. I like dealing with wood like that because I get so many splits from it.

If you can swing it, a 70cc saw and a cant hook would help you process that stuff. Cut it into 16" long rounds (or whatever your split length is) then use the cant hook to tip them up on their side so you can noodle them into chunks small enough to load into your truck. I have a Woodchuck Dual cant hook/peavy (its convertible) and the two points work well to grip big rounds to move them.

Where I am a cord of medium density hardwood like Black oak (which is similar to eastern red oak) saves about $1000 worth of propane. Unlike a lot of things, our propane costs are pretty much in line with other parts of the country. What I'm saying here it that you'll be saving a lot of money burning wood vs heating with propane or oil or electricity. If you have the free cash you can "borrow" from that future savings for equipment to get more wood.

I dunno about the Holzforma recommendation. I bought a MS440 clone and leaked both fuel and oil. Both were just sloppy assembly issues which I fixed but the parts and build quality is just not the same as a real Stihl. It vibrates a lot due to the heavy piston.

For what it's worth, I was cringing the whole time I was suggesting it.

 

[sundance]

My opinion......the Echo CS-590. Solid saw at a good price. Sounds like there's enough wood available that you can avoid the huge chunks. The pro saws are very nice (own a couple) but for a relatively small volume cutter the Echos do very well. My oldest Echo (a small 290) is at 35+ years and still in use.

 

[IntegrityCarpentry]

99% of wood in pics was cut with Echo 620 28” bar. I finally bought Echo after my dad switched from stihl and told me to buy echo for 5 years. They are heavier but pretty solid. It’s fun cutting these large pieces but then you have to move them. All this was moved and lifted by hand just my children and myself. If you can stay busy with smaller stuff it’s awesome. If you can bring a splitter next to cutting area there is a large size that might work efficiently but under 20” is nice to move.

Honestly what works for one may not work for you. Price alone. Your definitely looking at the 590 which is pretty similar to my 620. There would be nothing wrong with it. My experience with echos is most of them have clamshell type air filters. I am super picky. When I first got my Echo I put several different orings in critical places on the air filter and grease around opening and where the clamshell joins. It’s a 2 piece on 590 or 620. I still had some fines getting through, I saw oily dust in neck. Never having bought a new saw. I spent 55$ and got an aftermarket filter for mine, foam, that you have to clean and oil. It’s more work and money but I want my saw to last for years. If you can buy from a dealer that you can trust to tune the carb, and you can deal with annoying filter quality( the echo 400,680, 7310 and some older models have the good round pleated filters) snatch the 590 up. You can also message me about any questions about the echo since I have learned a bit since buying one that I would love to pass on like the o ring deal.

If the tunning of carb and the air filter are concern, I would save longer and buy stihl 261 with mtronic. My brother has one he bought used with less than 8 tanks of gas ran through it and saved a few hundred. But a lot of prayer went into that and the way people maintain things buying used is not the recommendation for everyone. My brother got blessed. He also waited for awhile, then all of a sudden we found that when he decided what saw he wanted. That size isn’t my first recommendation since you already have a saw in that class. And once you get a larger saw, you can put the smaller saws down to limbing and lighter stuff so they will last. When I started cutting firewood I just had my in laws poulon wild thing. I cut all kinds of stuff with that and until it died it was awesome. I would rather have cheap saws with sharp chains than pro saws with dull chains don’t be in a rush, take your time(you are already doing that) and weigh the opinions of others. How critical is it that you get into the big logs? For me, now that I got that out of my system, (one big tree dropped off from tree service) I would gladly do smaller logs. But if I get larger logs, I will take them and get the workout the Grass is greener where you water it.

My thoughts, if you go with something like the 590, the larger and smaller bar is an option. Otherwise, keep the small saws. And run them for when they fit. You have proven that $100 saw can work. Most likely fixing fuel lines will be a fix and you will have a small backup. But maybe you would rather switch bars and just maintain one saw long term. It’s really up to you. There is also the potential for the extra saw, having your stihl carb adjusted would fix starting issues. Adjusting low screw on carb can definitely make it easier or harder to start. 1/12th of a turn counter clockwise could make all the difference. Anyway, I don’t know the saw, you still need a better saw, but it would be nice if it were usable for you. Sorry this is long winded. Just my thoughts. Others are more experienced, but reach out if you need help. Many of us have gone through your same journey.

 

[sean donato]

Don't buy Chinese stuff where non-Chinese options are available. They are not our friends. They are not even friends to their own people. My 2c.

***************************************************

For the 12-18" hardwood stems and considering your current budget, the Echo 590/16" combo is about ideal. It will be fast enough and have enough grunt to not be frustrating, while still falling within your budget. The short bar makes sharpening go faster and keeps you from sticking the tip of the bar into the dirt and other things that you shouldn't be sticking it into.

Lately, we have been cutting those sort of logs up for firewood procesing, running a mix of saws - ported Husqvarna 543xp/13" at the low end, Stihl 261/16", Husqvarna 550MK2/16", ported Dolmar 5100sh/16", Stihl 400/16", Husqvarna 572/16", and Husqvarna 592/20". They all get the job done, some just get it done a bit faster. For cutting a downed log into pieces for splitting, where you make the same cut every 16" (or whatever your preferred firewood length is), having more power and grunt does make a difference.

For the big logs, the analysis is a bit different. Last year, we were cutting up a bunch of oddball sized logs that were dumped off by a tree service, including some in the >30" range, many being forked crotch pieces. That big stuff cut fine with the Stihl 400/25", Stihl 500/28", Husqarna 572/20", Dolmar 7900/28", and my ported Jonsered-Husqvarna 272/16". Yes, 16". Not everybody agrees, but I'd rather have a big powerhead and a short bar (and sometimes gearing up with an 8-tooth sprocket instead of a 7-tooth) and have to cut from both sides, than have a bar that I cannot lean on without pulling the revs way down. I find this works out to cut faster and be more productive, at least in my experience.

For really big stuff, there is a point where it just isn't going to be practical without heavy equipment. Some years back we had some white oak trunks that were rot-free (but not nail-free, sadly), and at the fat end used every inch of a 60" bar to cut up. They got cut with a Stihl 084/60" and 075/41" Once you flopped a 18" thick round off, it took a Bobcat with pallet forks to get the thing up-ended so we could then go in and quarter (or eighth or more) it so it would be small enough to put through the splitter. The labor and machinery needed to do that work was just not worth it, except for the fact we were having fun finally having a chance to use big CC saws and long bars in the way they were intended.

When I started out in the serious saw game almost 20 years ago, I came here to this site with a similar question to what you are asking. My Stihl 290 wasn't cutting it in the bigger wood, and I wanted to know how much more saw I needed. My question at that time was whether I should be looking at an 044, 046, or 066. I ended up buying a (6.3hp red top) Dolmar 7900 instead, and that proved to be the right choice. Ran a 20" bar on it most of the time, and a 28" for those instances where I needed more bar. I still have that saw and it pulls the 28" with regular, non-skip, chain just fine in anything I ask it to cut.

So in the end, what should you do? If your budget is not firmly limited to $400, I'd go find a clean used Stihl 046 (or 460), or Husqvarna 385/390, and set it up with 16-18" bar, and 32" bar (skip chain for the 046). Now, if your budget is truly limited in the way you originally suggested, I would go buy the Echo 590 and then cut, cut cut, and get good at sharpening, because a sharp chain will help you get the most out of what any saw has to offer, and if you're asking a 60cc saw to do 80cc saw work, it'll need to be sharp. See what you can do with it, and just don't cut what is too tedious to be worthwhile. I really think that the 16" bar and 24" bar (probably with skip chain) is the way to go for a do-all saw if that saw is the 590.

Eventually, you will either figure you that you need to add a bigger saw (90cc+) to your collection to get after the big chunks (bigger than most of what you showed in your pictures), or you will find you can get enough of the medium-large stuff with the saw you have and call it good, being a lot of money ahead of jumping right into the big saws from the get-go.

I mostly agree with this advice, other then big powerheads with small "geared up" bars are a total waste of fuel, and don't get any more work done then the same saw with an appropriate sized bar.
Really you need 2 saws. Something 60-70cc. The echo 590 would be the cheapest option. The 620 isn't worth the extra money imo. Fine running saw, a neighbor has one. It's just not that much more impressive then the 590, and for the money your in husqy 562xp range and they will eat a 590/620 for breakfast. Really the 590 is all thats in your price range new. If you don't mind buying used. Stihl ms361/2, ms400 (if you had the money this would be the best new or used.) Ms440, ms461/2. Husqy 562xp, 372xp, 572xp.
For the big stuff it's either going to be a husqy 390xp or a stihl ms660. I don't personally care for the 660, I like the way the 390xp handles better, has better av and air filtration then the 660 as well. Nothing wrong with the 660 very good saw. Just not for me. You can go bigger, but for all practical reasons there's no need. The 390/660 will bush a 36" bar with ease and longer can be had, but in honesty 99%of people are in over their head with a 24"+ tree let alone 36"+.

If you can push your budget to the low to mid $600 range, there's the Echo cs620p Pro model, and the Makita ea6100p. Makita quit the gas tools business after about 31 years of owning the German chainsaw maker Dolmar, but there are still some new old stock available here and there.

The only part of this statement that's good advice is the Echo advice.

 

[Bubster]

I would suggest used saws ,but the 044/440 Stihls that are 20 years old are bringing more than they sold for new on the Bay. But pawn shop deals can still be found. I have a Poulan Pro 375 (61ccs) that is very reliable that I picked up for $150. It can handle most anything you throw at it ,but without the greatest av system and without a chain brake. Don't mistake the older Poulans, Macs, and Homelites for the junk they started selling around the late 90s.

 

[FrugalFirewoodDad]

All very useful insight. Thanks guys.

It sounds like I cant really go too wrong with the echo 590 with an 18 and a 24" bar. I'd just have to limit to avoiding the biggest stuff.
Something like a 372xp/24" used would be a target if I get my budget up.

The comment someone made re most people being in over their heads with big wood is not lost on me. Compared to an average homeowner I've cut a ton of wood as a teenager and now starting again in my 50's, but the fact is the overwhelming vast majority of all that was on the small side easily handled by a 35cc 16" homelite. I am not a pro.

re chinese, its not my preference and without getting political I do agree. That said, it's on the table weighing the pros and cons. I get it though.

I prefer to not buy used for this. I usually buy used for a lot of items, things that i know what to look for when someone is trying to offload crap. I dont trust anyone enough and dont have the experience to know if I'd be buying someones problems wrt a chainsaw. I'll be attempting to find and then get to know a local shop in this regard.

I'm going to keep using what I have, clean up and sell off the 021 and the craftsman. Keep on eye what continues to show up at the dump, measure what size of "big" will be my realistic limit, and then revisit this.

 

[FrugalFirewoodDad]

I Don't mistake the older Poulans, Macs, and Homelites for the junk they started selling around the late 90s.

My dads small Poulan and small homelite from the late 70's/early 80's were the 2 saws i cut everything with as a kid. I recall we all preferred the homelite, but both cut a lot of wood.

I'll start keeping my eye out for used.

 

[IntegrityCarpentry]

My dads small Poulan and small homelite from the late 70's/early 80's were the 2 saws i cut everything with as a kid. I recall we all preferred the homelite, but both cut a lot of wood.

I'll start keeping my eye out for used.

@GusGus2020 has some very good candidates. I asked what he had for sale and this was his reply. “ I’ve got a couple of ported Husqvarna 55 that are for sale (work done by me), a ported Husqvarna 359, ported Husqvarna 261/262 hybrid and potentially a 2100cd. Also considering listing a couple of older Homelite that came in (330 is one of them).”

I have appreciate his care and integrity. He also sells some high quality Vallorbe files that have been a big improvement over Oregon files. He enjoys answering questions and sharing his knowledge, so I don’t think it would hurt you any to reach out to him. You would be supporting a great family man. Anyway, just an option I felt I should share.

 

[sean donato]

Buying used depends on who and where. Many of the guys on this site are stand up guys. I wouldn't hesitate to buy from them, and have bought off members before.
@Robin Wood sells new saws at very decent prices. He's a good one to deal with.

 

[FrugalFirewoodDad]

Just got back from another load. Someone dumped a big load of little 2-4" oak limbs that i loaded up on.


Did some recon while there. Just thinking out loud...

The guy that i keep running in to over there has a Stihl 311 with 20" bar. He only cuts logs perfectly positioned, only oak, straight grain. One at at time, and then splits on site. He is there every single time I have gone. Literally. He's about 70 & methodical.

Another guy I see there a lot was there again today. He has a stihl 250 with either a 16 or 18" bar and to be honest he doesnt seem to be doing nearly as well as I am with my Grizzly. He spends more time walking around looking for stuff to cut than actually cutting or loading, mostly looking frustrated. I dont want to be him.

I think maybe I dont need to bother with the biggest ridiculous 36+" logs in order to have a steady supply. One step down, in the upper20" diameter might leave plenty of wood to buck.

Google says the ms311 is $1300. I am assuming the 311 is a pretty good saw, huh? I cant swing that, but I can get my budget up to $6-700 ish if I put it off for a little bit, which I now plan to do. This puts me into Echo 620 price range. Or...

 

[Bubster]

311 should be around $600

 

[EchoShindaiwaMakitaDolmar]

If I were buying a Stihl I'd get a Pro saw, and not one of their Farm/Ranch models. Right after hurricane Ian I went to the local Stihl shop and almost let him talk me into a 311 or 391- I'm glad I avoided those two- not nearly as well regarded as their Pro saws.

 

[FrugalFirewoodDad]

If I were buying a Stihl I'd get a Pro saw, and not one of their Farm/Ranch models. Right after hurricane Ian I went to the local Stihl shop and almost let him talk me into a 311 or 391- I'm glad I avoided those two- not nearly as well regarded as their Pro saws.

Where does consumer/farm ranch model designation end and Pro model begin?

Ditto with Husqvarna?

 

[FrugalFirewoodDad]

Where does consumer/farm ranch model designation end and Pro model begin?

Ditto with Husqvarna?

OK, found this:
https://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent/CMSFileLibrary/downloads/Chain-Saw-Comparison-Chart.pdf

 

[Bubster]

If you are looking to find more reliable prices on Stihl, just click on acehardware for an idea , but that is only if the particular model is in stock.

 

[ericm979]

With a 24" bar you can cut trees close to 48" diameter. It sounds like that'll cover nearly all that you find at this location. A 60cc class pro saw like a Stihl MS362 will run a 24" bar albeit slower than a larger saw.

I'd rather have large rounds that are nice easily split trunks than smaller hard to split crotches.

When I am cutting large rounds into manageable pieces I cut almost all the way through and finish with a blow from a splitting maul. That way the chain does not go into the dirt.

It's cool that the dump lets people use saws there. Most places would not want to deal with the possibility of injury.

 

[sean donato]

There are many, many people running farm and ranch and semi pro saws for firewood. Pros and cons to everything. Not like most of us are in production. If tour only talking a few cord a year, there's nothing wrong with them. Most their bad rap is from people buying them and letting them sit all the time.