Chinese Stihl & Husky saws

[JimM]

but can you honestly tell me you have never bought something with "made in china" on it??

Only fools believe otherwise.

 

[gmax]

I have a 070 knock off, well sort off it's painted red & black, i didn't buy it, was a freebie from a friend.
Should I be taken out the back and shot or perhaps just horse whipped

 

[MCW]

You buy knockoffs, you should be taken out back and shot!

I'll supply you my address and the rifle and ammo
I'll even let you touch my Chinese 365's if you like prior to shooting me. While you're at it you'll need a lot of ammo to shoot all of your car manufacturers and everybody else.
Oh and guess what else arrived today?
What do you know, ten 066/660 BB kits from you guessed it, CHINA Oh and six 395XP mufflers, probably copied from Husqvarna?
I wonder if they actually copied the P&C from Stihl? Well they'd have to wouldn't they?

You are trying to make a very complex worldwide trend sound so simple without looking past the tip of your nose. If you think little old me is spelling the demise for the Western World by buying a couple of copied 365 saws (without Husqvarna labelling etc) you're wrong. By the way, last I heard the 365 was no longer available so when they start copying the 365 X-Torq feel free to complain.
Oh and the genuine Husqvarna HD filter setup fits these Chinese 365 saws nicely as well, as do the 76cc BB kits

 

[Rudolf73]

Looks like Christmas has come early Matt, Lucky you!

 

[MCW]

Looks like Christmas has come early Matt, Lucky you!

I'm bidding on an 066 at the moment on Fleabay to get a test mule again These kits are from a different manufacturer. Slightly more expensive but extremely well finished and without the freeporting exhaust.

I'm not going any higher than $720 by the way (in case anyone here is bidding)

Stihl Magnum 066 Chainsaw (eBay item 320705877571 end time 04-Jun-11 16:13:22 AEST) : Home

 

[Rudolf73]

I'm bidding on an 066 at the moment on Fleabay to get a test mule again These kits are from a different manufacturer. Slightly more expensive but extremely well finished and without the freeporting exhaust.

I'm not going any higher than $720 by the way (in case anyone here is bidding)

Stihl Magnum 066 Chainsaw (eBay item 320705877571 end time 04-Jun-11 16:13:22 AEST) : Home

Looks like a nice saw and hope you get it for that money - I won't bid on it to better your chances haha

I have been looking at half of a 660 powerhead on ebay also (missing jug and covers by the looks) but eager ebay guys are already up to $320 last time i checked.

 

[indiansprings]

Having sourced product globally for a greater portion of my life, I've come to the realization that most people have no friggin clue that about 60% of the worlds population/workforce makes less than 2.00 an hour. In a lot of countries still less than a 1.00 and hour.
It hard to compete when you have unions demanding that you make 30.00 an hour and add to that 25k a year in benefits. We have simply priced ourselves out of the competitive mfg market compared to the GLOBAL economy/picture. Yes, in the past our quality and productivity were vastly superior, those days are over folks.
You get a college educated worker in China for about 80 cents and hour, you get a skilled garment worker in South Africa for about a 1.00 an hour, the same in Central America.

You can stick your head in the sand and raise hell about how unfair it is but we have done it to ourselves along with our politicians.

The problem is our govt. is not stopping the illegal importation of the knockoffs. Our trade agreements are not worth the paper they are wrote on, until Washington decides to get serious with China and others that violate trade agreements this **** will continue to happen.

I buy American every time I can, and when it makes sense, my second choice is buying product made in Europe, but from a pricing stand point it is getting tougher and tougher to rationalize paying the price difference, the quality gap is narrowing.

I'll gladly pay up to 15% more for American product but no more.

 

[Stihlman441]

Ha Matt i hope ya get the 066 you have plenty of BB kits for it haha , and nice ironing board there mate i didny know you were like that.

 

[gmax]

I'll supply you my address and the rifle and ammo
I'll even let you touch my Chinese 365's if you like prior to shooting me. While you're at it you'll need a lot of ammo to shoot all of your car manufacturers and everybody else.
Oh and guess what else arrived today?
What do you know, ten 066/660 BB kits from you guessed it, CHINA Oh and six 395XP mufflers, probably copied from Husqvarna?
I wonder if they actually copied the P&C from Stihl? Well they'd have to wouldn't they?

You are trying to make a very complex worldwide trend sound so simple without looking past the tip of your nose. If you think little old me is spelling the demise for the Western World by buying a couple of copied 365 saws (without Husqvarna labelling etc) you're wrong. By the way, last I heard the 365 was no longer available so when they start copying the 365 X-Torq feel free to complain.
Oh and the genuine Husqvarna HD filter setup fits these Chinese 365 saws nicely as well, as do the 76cc BB kits

My Woodland Pro BB kit also arrived today, just the one but it's a big one :smile2:, i would hate to think what a genuine Stihl 090 P/C would cost

 

[Rudolf73]

My Woodland Pro BB kit also arrived today, just the one but it's a big one :smile2:, i would hate to think what a genuine Stihl 090 P/C would cost

Very nice! can't wait to see a video :cool2:

 

[gmax]

No worries, I'm just trying to get a better carby for it, depends if I get outbid tomorrow.

 

[koshari]

while there is a lot of negative sentiment from people critisising others for buying chinese knock offs, i believe stihl ( at least stihl australia pty ltd) themselves need to take a small part of the blame as far as aussies buying knock offs goes,

i recently got a ms261 sent over from a 3rd party who bought it legit from a walk in store from the US. he promptly paid state taxes on top of the retail, drove down to the local postal office , boxed it up and sent it over to me here in Australia, i gave him $30 for his troubles and a few other bucks to cover the cost of the paypal currency conversion.

total cost to me, $716AUD. list price from the same saw from an australian dealer, $1300!

the saw is made in the US so iam supporting American jobs,

i even got an aistralian made GB bar made in sunshine, Melbourne shipped from the UK cheaper than i can get one in an australian retail store!

what the hell is going on there where a bar shipped half way round the world, handled twice then shipped back here is CHEAPER than what i can get it for locally????

and as for the beer part of the thread, forget fosters, we have boage , lowenbrau and hoegarrten here,

( oh wait lowwey s and hoeys are european )

 

[a. palmer jr.]

I think we've defined the problem simply but well, it's a case of large corporations trying to get their products built as cheaply as possible and consumers wanting to buy the products as cheap as possible. That works fine when you're dealing with honest, moral and ethical people. China truly is none of those things, they manipulate their currency to their advantage and they counterfeit patented products freely. Americans and Europeans would be arrested for infringement of patent laws but we let the Chinese get away with it. It would be in our best interest to do without the products made in China. Red China has always been an enemy of the United States and their trade policies would hardly qualify them as our ally now.

 

[koshari]

I think we've defined the problem simply but well, it's a case of large corporations trying to get their products built as cheaply as possible and consumers wanting to buy the products as cheap as possible. That works fine when you're dealing with honest, moral and ethical people. China truly is none of those things, they manipulate their currency to their advantage and they counterfeit patented products freely. Americans and Europeans would be arrested for infringement of patent laws but we let the Chinese get away with it. It would be in our best interest to do without the products made in China. Red China has always been an enemy of the United States and their trade policies would hardly qualify them as our ally now.

i still think it all to easy to blame china without looking at our own backyards, i can only really speak for australian scenarios, but for years businesses here have been moving production offshore to china, taking advantage of lesser manufacturing costs, which i can accept, however the retail prices being charged here are the same or more as what they were when the product was produced locally, so they are the ones who have done the moral back flip,

now people have woken up that they can get the same item from china bypassing the local distributor for a closer to actual production cost they cry foul on moral grounds,

a local Australian retailing giant found out just recently how pi$$ed off aussies were from being reamed by retail in this country,

 

[a. palmer jr.]

My previous post was not to say that America is completely blameless in all this, they're not. Our country does plenty of currency manipulation on it's own. Did you ever wonder why you only get 1% or less on money you have in the bank? Our interest rates are being kept artificially low when they should be hovering closer to 10%. Another case of the "haves" sticking it to the "have nots!"

 

[a. palmer jr.]

i still think it all to easy to blame china without looking at our own backyards, i can only really speak for australian scenarios, but for years businesses here have been moving production offshore to china, taking advantage of lesser manufacturing costs, which i can accept, however the retail prices being charged here are the same or more as what they were when the product was produced locally, so they are the ones who have done the moral back flip,

now people have woken up that they can get the same item from china bypassing the local distributor for a closer to actual production cost they cry foul on moral grounds,

a local Australian retailing giant found out just recently how pi$$ed off aussies were from being reamed by retail in this country,

There's plenty of blame to go around on this one. Our citizens buy their products knowing full well what is going on. I would imagine Australia isn't much different than the US. Everyone wants to buy things and not pay a high price for it. If we think things are all right this way then we're only one step away from shoplifting. Why not just steal the product off the shelf and save 100% of the price? We're condoning stealing when we buy counterfeited products anyway.

 

[tdi-rick]

Don't forget that all the Western nations have been playing economic rape and pillage with the second and third world for centuries, it's just that the Chinese have some clout now and are willing to wield it.

Their influence comes from firstly being cashed up, partially from embracing trade with the west in the eighties and then manipulating their currency to keep favourable balance of trade figures as you've pointed out.
Then, when US citizens became hooked on cheap, easy credit and the Feds didn't have the balls to step in and regulate the market they bought US Treasury Bonds to keep their main market afloat.

As a consequence you are both in a dance embrace neither can break without major economic consequences for either nation, or until China generates a substantial and affluent middle class. The outcome of that is even more frightening unless you guys can drag yourselves out of your hole.



What is scary is how unstable China is politically.

There is a massive play going on behind the scenes high up in the Communist Party between the moderates who wish to engage the world, trade with us and liberalise China and the arch leftist conservatives (and i know that sounds like an oxymoron to those in the US, but that's exactly what they are)
who are pushing for things to go back to the Mao/cultural revolution days and take on the west in an idealogical/confrontationist/military aggressive way.

I read as much as I can on the buggers, there are some good columnists here that have been based in China for years and it's fascinating and frightening what is playing out behind a veil in Beijing.

This bloke is good reading.
I try and read every article of his that is published.
John Garnaut - Business - smh.com.au

 

[MCW]

Having sourced product globally for a greater portion of my life, I've come to the realization that most people have no friggin clue that about 60% of the worlds population/workforce makes less than 2.00 an hour. In a lot of countries still less than a 1.00 and hour.
It hard to compete when you have unions demanding that you make 30.00 an hour and add to that 25k a year in benefits. We have simply priced ourselves out of the competitive mfg market compared to the GLOBAL economy/picture. Yes, in the past our quality and productivity were vastly superior, those days are over folks.
You get a college educated worker in China for about 80 cents and hour, you get a skilled garment worker in South Africa for about a 1.00 an hour, the same in Central America.

You can stick your head in the sand and raise hell about how unfair it is but we have done it to ourselves along with our politicians.

The problem is our govt. is not stopping the illegal importation of the knockoffs. Our trade agreements are not worth the paper they are wrote on, until Washington decides to get serious with China and others that violate trade agreements this **** will continue to happen.

I buy American every time I can, and when it makes sense, my second choice is buying product made in Europe, but from a pricing stand point it is getting tougher and tougher to rationalize paying the price difference, the quality gap is narrowing.

I'll gladly pay up to 15% more for American product but no more.

Very well written mate and I agree. However it is easy to point the finger at John Q Citizen for willfully buying Chinese made produce and as some have done point the finger at me for importing Chinese 365 knock offs (ouch...my eye!).
Illegally produced knock offs are not the problem as truth be known they are a very very small portion of the Chinese produced goods entering both of our countries. 99.99% of Chinese goods entering our countries are 100% legit and legal.
Seriously though the simple consumer is not to blame for all of this. Labelling laws are a shocker and despite people for example seeing "Made In USA" on their new MS261 they don't for one second think of asking ask what percentage of the saw is actually US Made. Chinese carb for example. Even if you did ask I'd bet my left nut that you wouldn't get a truthful reply from Stihl USA.
For example we have an "Australian Made" Holden (GM) Cruze car. Australian made my arse - it's 75% foreign content.
See what I'm saying? This goes way deeper than the average consumer can hope to fathom.

Ha Matt i hope ya get the 066 you have plenty of BB kits for it haha , and nice ironing board there mate i didny know you were like that.

Yeah I have to iron the wrinkles out of the Chinese bores

There's plenty of blame to go around on this one. Our citizens buy their products knowing full well what is going on. I would imagine Australia isn't much different than the US. Everyone wants to buy things and not pay a high price for it. If we think things are all right this way then we're only one step away from shoplifting. Why not just steal the product off the shelf and save 100% of the price? We're condoning stealing when we buy counterfeited products anyway.

See my reply above to Indiansprings. Your analogy in bold is also plain stupid - it is not that simple and trying to convince people like myself that I am one step off of being a criminal doesn't sit well. The other thing too is that quite often the only product available is now ONLY made in China - buy some US made sandshoes for example. If you saw me in the supermarket you'd probably get a big shock as I absolutely refuse to buy Chinese food due to it's dubious quality. I am constantly amazed at just how much poor quality but low priced foodstuffs are gradually making their way onto our supermarket shelves.
I have no issue buying Chinese goods when the quality is up to scratch.
Despite a massive push by many Australian businessmen to "Buy Australian" the fact remains that when times are tough, people will buy the cheapest possible produce to sustain themselves and their families. It's easy for people to jump on their high horse about things such as this but money is tight in many circles at the moment.

 

[MCW]

That might be a bit harsh. Knockoffs can be a good thing. Lot of folks buy “generic” prescription drugs. They are cheaper but just as effective as name brand medicine. If the knockoffs are on the market, they force the price of genuine products down to compete with them. Consumers should be allowed to choose what they want to buy or what they can afford to buy. The more choices you have the better off for the consumers. A sole provider in a given industry can demand whatever they want for their products. That’s why the states has anti-trust laws. Free market=free choice.

This is exactly right. For example in Agricultural chemicals the average profit margin on new chemicals (before the patent expires) is 1000-1200%!!!
After 5 years (I think) when the product can be produced generically the margins for the manufacturers drop to around 20% or slightly more (funnily enough the retailers in our region are lucky to make 5%).
Same goes for drugs like you mentioned. How many people have died because drug companies have inflated their margins and poorer people can't afford the appropriate medication.
This isn't to say that companies who have invested the time and money into producing and testing the products can't make their money back, but they can't keep doing it forever.

Like chainsaws. As mentioned I have no time at all for blatent knock offs (Stihl/Husky labels etc) but remember that there is a time frame with which patents expire.
I have no problem with the Chinese knocking off saws that are no longer available from the major manufacturers. Like the 365

 

[roostersgt]

I posted this earlier, but got no response. How is it that we can afford the European saws, Huskvarna and Stihl, but our companies here can't produce one of similar quality / price? The European nations that produce those saw brands are more heavily taxed and regulated than companies in the U.S. Furthermore, they have more unionization and affilliated employee costs than we. The U.S. can't produce a $600 - $1500 saw?