Chipper's Ford 300 inline 6, sudden no-start

[Maintenance supervisor]

I have a JLG boom lift with the Ford inline 4 cylinder industrial motor , actually the same motor that was in the Ford pinto back in the early 80’s. Same situation, went through everything you had tested pull off the timing cover and timing belt jumped 2 teeth , replaced the belt and water pump while I was in there. Started on less than 2 revolutions and it’s running better now than it ever did.

I believe that his motor is directl gears , no belt to jump. Like a tractor motor.

 

[Aknutter]

Courtesy of @svk
The cam gear is gone on this pic

 

[64poncho]

View attachment 1017389

Courtesy of @svk
The cam gear is gone on this pic

Don’t know about industrial engine but do know the truck engine had a gear made of phenolic resin and did fail like the photo
Aknutter supplied.

 

[pondnstream]

The cam and distributor are all driven by gears.

“The camshaft is supported by four bearings pressed into the block. It is driven by gears from the crankshaft. Cam-shaft end play is controlled by a plate bolted to the front of the block. The distributor, located on the left side of the engine, is driven by a gear on the camshaft. The distributor drives the rotor-type oil pump through an intermediate driveshaft.”

 

[ken morgan]

EDIT: saw you did that already.... my bust. change your spark plugs... the ignition modules from that era and their replacements will shut off your fuel pump and ignition if the spark plug does not pass an internal resistance test by the 2nd spark event (might be third don't remember anymore.) example back in the day: my neighbors thunderbird (1995) would sometimes start sometimes not start, not getting fuel sometimes.... all it took was all new plugs and zero issues after that until the plugs got crappy again. and yes it happened several times after that as he was like they look fine to me.... don't care swap them first.

 

[cookies]

EDIT: saw you did that already.... my bust. change your spark plugs... the ignition modules from that era and their replacements will shut off your fuel pump and ignition if the spark plug does not pass an internal resistance test by the 2nd spark event (might be third don't remember anymore.) example back in the day: my neighbors thunderbird (1995) would sometimes start sometimes not start, not getting fuel sometimes.... all it took was all new plugs and zero issues after that until the plugs got crappy again. and yes it happened several times after that as he was like they look fine to me.... don't care swap them first.

its a mechanical fuel pump to carb, my money is on a broken camshaft, cam gear and likely bent intake pushrods. Could even have the cam lobes spinning on the shaft if they are the pressed on version.

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

.....

Spraying starting fluid into the intake manifold should bypass any fuel pump or carburetor issues and at least produce a cough or pop or wisp of white smoke , I get none of these.

.....

That narrows it down to either ignition or valve timing (Or both if you're really unlucky!), or low compression (Which can be caused by incorrect valve timing).

 

[northmanlogging]

It was running but suddenly stopped.

We put in 6 new plugs but still no-start, no change, all plugs spark.

We put in a new ignition module, no-start, no change, all plugs spark.

We took out all 6 plugs and checked each for visible spark, all have visible spark, pass.

With distributor open, rotor at cyl 1 position, piston #1 (and 6) is at top , timing notch on crank pulley is positioned next to timing marks on engine block. I think I have a timing light somewhere, hopefully can find it and check timing.

When engine turns over distributor rotor turns.

With all plugs out, gasoline spits out of cylinder 3 ! All other cylinders appear dry. WTF! How is this possible with a functioning cam and compression reading on all cylinders?

Taking it to the mechanic who we bought it from this weekend. I hope he finds the problem, even if it makes me feel stupid !
.

gas out of #3, tells me its flooded, but that could just be from the numerous attempts to start.
From the sounds of it, its jumped timing, if TDC on @1 but rotor pointing @6... that like at least 60deg out of time, should be around 10-20 deg advanced (don't quote these numbers I'm not that good of a mechananic lol, just pretty standard advance)
Get that timing light working, if its way out you have bigger issues.

 

[POGuy]

gas out of #3, tells me its flooded, but that could just be from the numerous attempts to start.
From the sounds of it, its jumped timing, if TDC on @1 but rotor pointing @6... that like at least 60deg out of time, should be around 10-20 deg advanced (don't quote these numbers I'm not that good of a mechananic lol, just pretty standard advance)
Get that timing light working, if its way out you have bigger issues.

One of the pics shows what looks like a 3 but # 4 plug wire looks plugged in there, just a poor photo or evidence of swapped plug wires?

 

[9050LX]

As a mechanic, I've grown to hate anything with magic boxes attached to it. Great when they're working ... but when they're not they make you want to set the engine ablaze, then smash it with a sledgehammer. Expensive and failure prone to replace, and infuriating to troubleshoot. I'd get rid of that and install something simple like Mad Professor suggested.

But before we go too crazy, did you try shooting some brake clean down the carb and see if it'll run, or at least pop a few times? If it fires, you've got good spark, timing, and compression, but have a fuel issue.

MSD 6A ignition boxes are simple, they just need a square wave trigger like a set of points or a hall-effect sensor, and a coil. I'm using a spare MSD box on my Case 220 Kohler K-series single cylinder, and a 12 volt Ford TFI coil. Can also use a Ford TFI module with a heat sink as your CDI module. Simple and cheap.

 

[9050LX]

Well, any updates?

 

[POGuy]

Well, any updates?

Does this unit use a Murphy switch type set up ? Oil pressure reading low or coolant level issue ? Just trying to help grasp those straws !!

 

[POGuy]

Does this unit use a Murphy switch type set up ? Oil pressure reading low or coolant level issue ? Just trying to help grasp those straws !!

Also, what brand and model #'s do you show?

 

[9050LX]

This sucks to have happen,but a really good practice in diagnosing ford's (just kidding).

 

[Mad Professor]

I always liked the GM 1-wire distributors...........

 

[9050LX]

Yeah.i think you can adapt an cheap ignition from the GM module also.

 

[Aknutter]

Any progress made with the motor issue?

You can use a 5 gallon gas can set next to machine and run a length of hose to the fuel pump for a temporary trial.

 

[pondnstream]

Dropped it off at mechanic Friday evening, waiting patiently and hoping it’s something simple ( inexpensive).

 

[pondnstream]

Just heard from the mechanic: “…the carburetor was totally seized up and there was no fuel passing…. these are not made anymore….I can get one they my connections… carb is $850 and $150 to install it…”

I said yes because time is money.

 

[POGuy]

Just heard from the mechanic: “…the carburetor was totally seized up and there was no fuel passing…. these are not made anymore….I can get one they my connections… carb is $850 and $150 to install it…”

I said yes because time is money.

Hope that is the solution, please come back and let us know !!