DDM
Addicted to ArboristSite
Forrest, First of all The First book you need to buy would be Tree climbers companion Available for 15.00 From Sherrill. 
Climbing Saw Favorites
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Kevin
Addicted to ArboristSite
35cc is bare bones minimum in my book.
SpikedSupra
ArboristSite Operative
Books
I'm going to look into that Tree Climbers Companion Book at Sherrill's. If anyone else knows of any helpful books let me know so I can purchase them. Thanks David.
I'm going to look into that Tree Climbers Companion Book at Sherrill's. If anyone else knows of any helpful books let me know so I can purchase them. Thanks David.
Kevin
Addicted to ArboristSite
Forrest, buy two of them.
One for the field and keep one at home.
It`s one of the better investments.
One for the field and keep one at home.
It`s one of the better investments.
Stumper
One Man Band
Forrest, Apparrently I'm the only guy on the site who likes the 019T.
I didn't mention it before but it costs a couple of hundred less than the 020T/ms200. Still a bit more than the Echo 3000.
Lots of power is'nt needed all the time in a climbing saw but it proves very helpful when blocking down large limbs/leaders. A peppy small saw can let you get by without a midsized saw (I certainly prefer to have more saws however). I happen to like Echo products and would not hesitate to buy one.
P.S. The advantage of tophandled saws is not better handling on the ground in normal 2 handed use,rather, the tophandle design provides better balance for one hand use. I like the swept handle of the 019T because it allows one to use two hands in situations where it would otherwise be difficult. Top handle designs are also more compact which is often advantageous in the tree.
I didn't mention it before but it costs a couple of hundred less than the 020T/ms200. Still a bit more than the Echo 3000.Lots of power is'nt needed all the time in a climbing saw but it proves very helpful when blocking down large limbs/leaders. A peppy small saw can let you get by without a midsized saw (I certainly prefer to have more saws however). I happen to like Echo products and would not hesitate to buy one.
P.S. The advantage of tophandled saws is not better handling on the ground in normal 2 handed use,rather, the tophandle design provides better balance for one hand use. I like the swept handle of the 019T because it allows one to use two hands in situations where it would otherwise be difficult. Top handle designs are also more compact which is often advantageous in the tree.
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Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
Half way with John, Sillky Zubat handsaw then a 335 then Jonny 2149 or Husky 351. I hope I don't need to use anything bigger in a tree
Tom
Tom
Acer
ArboristSite Operative
My vote for a top handled saw would be 020T (now MS200T). The Husky model, when I had a go with it, seemed useless, and only seemed happy on fine sunny days. Any dampness or drizzle in the air, and it just would not idle. It was also badly balanced, with the point of balance on the trigger. I think the top handled saw does have an advantage over similar rear handled models. You can get it in some places where a rear handled one would be too awkward, although I doubt if I'd buy another one. My 020T cost £450, and health & safety law says it can only be used in the tree (using both hands, of course!)
When I visited a friend in Montana recently, I was amazed that Husky top handled saws were available at Walmart or Target (I can't remember exactly the name of the place, but it was big). Here, there's a big issue about top handled saws getting into the hands of non professionals, so dealers have to see your qualifications before they sell them. Their days are numbered - it needs one or two more accidents involving homeowners, and they'll be banned, so we'll have no choice but to use rear handled saws anyway.
When I visited a friend in Montana recently, I was amazed that Husky top handled saws were available at Walmart or Target (I can't remember exactly the name of the place, but it was big). Here, there's a big issue about top handled saws getting into the hands of non professionals, so dealers have to see your qualifications before they sell them. Their days are numbered - it needs one or two more accidents involving homeowners, and they'll be banned, so we'll have no choice but to use rear handled saws anyway.
Kneejerk Bombas
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The top handled saw is more dangerous to use. The operator looses leverage to fight kickback because his hands are close together. It also becomes fatiguing to run because of this close hand position.
When you guys, the few who like them, talk about top handled saws being balenced, what the heck are you talking about, are you juggling them? Do you mean balenced when you are in the store holding the saw or when you are cutting with it? think about that. I want the saw balenced when I'm cutting, that typically means nose heavy.
Another question, what kind of positions are you getting your self into where <I> only</I> a top handled saw could cut?
I could see using a carving bar to get into tight places but how does the handle significantly change where you can cut? I don't find cutting in a tree all that different from cutting on the ground, other than in the tree you need to get he saw up to yourself in the tree and carry it around on your belt. I do understand wanting a light and powerful saw, I just don't understand wanting a saw with both handles so close together your wrists are are crooked or the bar sticks straight up in the air when you cut.
Don't forget about the loss of reach with a top handle saw, a little extra reach saves a lot of repositioning, and that is important to me in the tree.
When you guys, the few who like them, talk about top handled saws being balenced, what the heck are you talking about, are you juggling them? Do you mean balenced when you are in the store holding the saw or when you are cutting with it? think about that. I want the saw balenced when I'm cutting, that typically means nose heavy.
Another question, what kind of positions are you getting your self into where <I> only</I> a top handled saw could cut?
I could see using a carving bar to get into tight places but how does the handle significantly change where you can cut? I don't find cutting in a tree all that different from cutting on the ground, other than in the tree you need to get he saw up to yourself in the tree and carry it around on your belt. I do understand wanting a light and powerful saw, I just don't understand wanting a saw with both handles so close together your wrists are are crooked or the bar sticks straight up in the air when you cut.
Don't forget about the loss of reach with a top handle saw, a little extra reach saves a lot of repositioning, and that is important to me in the tree.
seanlarkin
ArboristSite Guru
Not to be saleman-ish, but we still have a bunch of ECHO tools that we're trying to get rid of. From saws, to trimmers, to blowers, those sorts of things. We dropped the ECHO line, because it didn't fit with our Vermeer plans. The end result of that is some products left over, but not catalogged, sooooo we've cut the prices in hopes of freeing up warehouse space. Please view this link if you're interested:
http://store.wtsherrill.com/pgi-CustomListProducts5?4,ECHO Power Tools On Sale,2,158,=,echo,&,20,>,0
I'm sorry about the lack of pictures. If there's a specific product you'd like to see a picture of, and it's not in our 2001 catalog, please email me and I'll send it to you. Thanks.
-Sean
http://store.wtsherrill.com/pgi-CustomListProducts5?4,ECHO Power Tools On Sale,2,158,=,echo,&,20,>,0
I'm sorry about the lack of pictures. If there's a specific product you'd like to see a picture of, and it's not in our 2001 catalog, please email me and I'll send it to you. Thanks.
-Sean
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climbing saws
John Paul Sanborn, don't you find cutting a 6" branch by hand tiring. Climbing is hard enough. To each his own but I would think a chainsaw would be better! Rich.
John Paul Sanborn, don't you find cutting a 6" branch by hand tiring. Climbing is hard enough. To each his own but I would think a chainsaw would be better! Rich.
kf_tree
Addicted to ArboristSite
mike
the reson i prefer a top handled saw is for all the wrong reasons. i do alot of one handed cutting. yes i may get yelled at for saying it. but in the real world you can't always keep 2 hands on a saw. i mostly climb with a top handled saw. if its a big removal i may take a 357 with a 16 in bar. i've even used a 3120 in a tree.
but for tight removals or pruning where the tree is over a spider web of phone and cable wires i cut and throw alot of branch's. if your taking out a branch that is too small,unworthy of a rope what do you do? i just hold the branch with one hand and cut with the other.
as far as reach the reach. the reach would be the same if two hands are on the saw. i'd be more worried about kick back using a rear handled saw one handed.
the reson i prefer a top handled saw is for all the wrong reasons. i do alot of one handed cutting. yes i may get yelled at for saying it. but in the real world you can't always keep 2 hands on a saw. i mostly climb with a top handled saw. if its a big removal i may take a 357 with a 16 in bar. i've even used a 3120 in a tree.
but for tight removals or pruning where the tree is over a spider web of phone and cable wires i cut and throw alot of branch's. if your taking out a branch that is too small,unworthy of a rope what do you do? i just hold the branch with one hand and cut with the other.
as far as reach the reach. the reach would be the same if two hands are on the saw. i'd be more worried about kick back using a rear handled saw one handed.
SpikedSupra
ArboristSite Operative
The Book
A copy of "Tree Climber's Companion" is on its way to my house. Thanks David!
A copy of "Tree Climber's Companion" is on its way to my house. Thanks David!
Acer
ArboristSite Operative
When all I had was an 026, I came across situations where the rear handle of the saw prevented me making as accurate a cut as I wanted. It sometimes gets obstructed by other branches. It's especially true when you're working on trees that have been topped some while ago, where many branches originate from the area around the topping cut.
DDM
Addicted to ArboristSite
Hmmmm if i keep both hands on the Saw how do i keep the piece I'M cutting from falling thru the roof?
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Dave - snap-cut, break and toss. For me one handing my 020 is the exception.
Rich, these saws are so fast that the occational big cut is worth not dragging 10# around in the tree. In thinning I follow the tenent "keep the wounds small". 6 in is a big cut for me, so it is rare that I make them.
I'm not saying that I'd give up my 020, just that "If I knew then..." I would not have bought a climbing saw, put th $425 to somethign else.
Rich, these saws are so fast that the occational big cut is worth not dragging 10# around in the tree. In thinning I follow the tenent "keep the wounds small". 6 in is a big cut for me, so it is rare that I make them.
I'm not saying that I'd give up my 020, just that "If I knew then..." I would not have bought a climbing saw, put th $425 to somethign else.
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Kneejerk Bombas
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I like to work the top of the crown with my hand saw, then when I get to the lower part where the bigger cuts are I pull up my chain saw. Sometimes I hang a strap in the center of the tree and clip the chain saw there while I go out on a limb or two.
On saw handle configuration:
Rear handled topping saws do have a better(longer) reach. If you have to ask how, you have not tried one. Near as I can figure, it's to do with the distance between your shoulders. See, if you turn sideways and reach out with one hand, hold that position and then reach your other hand out, it will go out about 12" less. The aproximate distance between the front and rear handle of a rear handled saw, but notice, your still fully extended with the first hand. reach out with both hands together, and you lose about 12".
If used with one hand, the kick back is less with a rear handled saw. If you hold a saw at it's balancing point, like with a top handled saw, it will tip back with the full force of the kick back. On a rear handled saw, you have leverage, the weight of the saw, and the mass of the saw resisting the kick back. The old standards said you could only cut one handed if it were deemed safer, now you need use both hands for all cuts.
If you disagree, then why don't big ground saws have top handles?
An 026 is not a topping saw and I can see how this saw could be cumbersome for trimming in a tree. I'm talking about topping saws.
It's my opinion that the guys who don't like rear handle configuration, or at least can't see the advantages, have just never given one a good try and probably won't. That seems to be the nature of a large number of tree guys I've talked to. They see better ways of doing things but just won't change, they won't even try them out.
I know one guy, been climbing 20 years, still on a 3 wrap tautline hitch, tied on the end of his line(no split tail). What the heck?
On saw handle configuration:
Rear handled topping saws do have a better(longer) reach. If you have to ask how, you have not tried one. Near as I can figure, it's to do with the distance between your shoulders. See, if you turn sideways and reach out with one hand, hold that position and then reach your other hand out, it will go out about 12" less. The aproximate distance between the front and rear handle of a rear handled saw, but notice, your still fully extended with the first hand. reach out with both hands together, and you lose about 12".
If used with one hand, the kick back is less with a rear handled saw. If you hold a saw at it's balancing point, like with a top handled saw, it will tip back with the full force of the kick back. On a rear handled saw, you have leverage, the weight of the saw, and the mass of the saw resisting the kick back. The old standards said you could only cut one handed if it were deemed safer, now you need use both hands for all cuts.
If you disagree, then why don't big ground saws have top handles?
An 026 is not a topping saw and I can see how this saw could be cumbersome for trimming in a tree. I'm talking about topping saws.
It's my opinion that the guys who don't like rear handle configuration, or at least can't see the advantages, have just never given one a good try and probably won't. That seems to be the nature of a large number of tree guys I've talked to. They see better ways of doing things but just won't change, they won't even try them out.
I know one guy, been climbing 20 years, still on a 3 wrap tautline hitch, tied on the end of his line(no split tail). What the heck?
kf_tree
Addicted to ArboristSite
hey
i still use a tautline and have no interest in a split tail. but a rope coated cable lanyard with a cam is the best thing since sliced bread.
i still use a tautline and have no interest in a split tail. but a rope coated cable lanyard with a cam is the best thing since sliced bread.
My new favorite saw is my Husky 335XPT California. I replaced my dieing Stihl 019T with this saw abt 2 weeks ago, and there is a day and night difference between the two. I've only run about 3 tanks of gas so far, and the saw still takes several pulls to start, that bugs me!!!! All of my Stihl saws when warm start with one yank --this thing better get better. I love the 45cc power, but so far I think this Intenz bar sucks, and the gas sure burns quick but I'll take the trade off to keep the power and light weight.
I have been giving my Silky Zubat a work out however, and I really like that saw, it cuts way better than a brand new Carona same size.
I prefer to use a hand saw over a power saw, but if I'm cutting stuff 4inches plus give me some gas.
Get a split tail, and try a blakes
Greg
I have been giving my Silky Zubat a work out however, and I really like that saw, it cuts way better than a brand new Carona same size.
I prefer to use a hand saw over a power saw, but if I'm cutting stuff 4inches plus give me some gas.
Get a split tail, and try a blakes
Greg
Kevin
Addicted to ArboristSite
I`ll never give up my top handled saw
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Nickrosis
Manned by Boderators
I visited the Echo website (www.echo-tools.com) and got a laugh out of the tag line for one of their saws:
TOP HANDLE SAWS
CS3000
The 'Industry Standard' Top Handle Saw suitable for single hand operation - for superior tree trimming and working in tight spaces such as in building and construction.
30.1cc, 1.04kW, Echo 2-stroke engine
Dry weight (head only) 3.2kg
Bar - 30cm
Chain pitch - 3/8 low profile
Bar gauge - 050 sprocket nose
WHAT INDUSTRY STANDARD ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT??? It's not the Z133.2000 standard, that's for sure. Single hand operation? They advocate that? A lawsuit waiting to happen. It should be interesting. When I hit "Submit" on this post, I will click back to their website and send them an e-mail about this.
Wait, I'll add another thing to that e-mail. "Building and construction." Um. Right. Every builder should rush out and buy this saw because it's great for trimming trees after you've kiln-dried the trunk and made boards out of it.
Mike Maas has made some great points, if you don't see them - you need to re-evaluate your attitude. I'm not going to stop asking for an MS200T for my birthday, but I will take his comments to heart the next time I'm in a tree with a saw. You should, too.
Spike_it, I can't understand some of your comments and wonder if you're trying to impress people here with your bravery and prowess. In some of your other posts, you seem as if you're embellishing some incidents which casts doubt on things you may be completely honest about.
What I'm trying to say is that you need not impress anyone here because we're supportive and encouraging, deep down. You obviously have far more experience in large, difficult removals than I do, and I respect you for that. Please, consider the thought of "never stop learning" and see if that would help make your life easier and safer by learning new techniques. I mean all of this because I care about you and every other climber - I want you to be safe, efficient, and well-humored.
JPS, you've got a great point. With a little elbow grease, you can be quieter, safer, faster in some cases, and more precise. Handsaws are underused by many people, but I believe they would save people's lives with increased use.
Cut and throw should only be done with snap cuts or with handsaws. Even if I get called "Little Shigo" out on the job like I do, I will still tell people to wear hard hats, hearing and eye protection, chaps, etc. If someone got hurt or died and I could have done something about it............I would have a very hard time living after that.
Nickrosis
TOP HANDLE SAWS
CS3000
The 'Industry Standard' Top Handle Saw suitable for single hand operation - for superior tree trimming and working in tight spaces such as in building and construction.
30.1cc, 1.04kW, Echo 2-stroke engine
Dry weight (head only) 3.2kg
Bar - 30cm
Chain pitch - 3/8 low profile
Bar gauge - 050 sprocket nose
WHAT INDUSTRY STANDARD ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT??? It's not the Z133.2000 standard, that's for sure. Single hand operation? They advocate that? A lawsuit waiting to happen. It should be interesting. When I hit "Submit" on this post, I will click back to their website and send them an e-mail about this.
Wait, I'll add another thing to that e-mail. "Building and construction." Um. Right. Every builder should rush out and buy this saw because it's great for trimming trees after you've kiln-dried the trunk and made boards out of it.
Mike Maas has made some great points, if you don't see them - you need to re-evaluate your attitude. I'm not going to stop asking for an MS200T for my birthday, but I will take his comments to heart the next time I'm in a tree with a saw. You should, too.
Spike_it, I can't understand some of your comments and wonder if you're trying to impress people here with your bravery and prowess. In some of your other posts, you seem as if you're embellishing some incidents which casts doubt on things you may be completely honest about.
What I'm trying to say is that you need not impress anyone here because we're supportive and encouraging, deep down. You obviously have far more experience in large, difficult removals than I do, and I respect you for that. Please, consider the thought of "never stop learning" and see if that would help make your life easier and safer by learning new techniques. I mean all of this because I care about you and every other climber - I want you to be safe, efficient, and well-humored.
JPS, you've got a great point. With a little elbow grease, you can be quieter, safer, faster in some cases, and more precise. Handsaws are underused by many people, but I believe they would save people's lives with increased use.
Cut and throw should only be done with snap cuts or with handsaws. Even if I get called "Little Shigo" out on the job like I do, I will still tell people to wear hard hats, hearing and eye protection, chaps, etc. If someone got hurt or died and I could have done something about it............I would have a very hard time living after that.
Nickrosis
