Climbing Saw Favorites

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Spyder wrote:

"One handed operation though, i think the balanced, lighter saw; that was made for the job, whose back end keeps the front end up would be safer without a doubt. "

I agree that a light saw is nice for topping work and one handed operation, but how does a saw with the back end already lifting the front end(the bar) up, help reduce kickback?
That's what kickback is, lifting of the front end. You add saw balance that is lifting the front end, to kickback, and you increase the chance of injury.

All you nay sayers do me a favor, hold your saw out in front of you and have the bar level. Now tip the bar downward about 45 degrees, like you might do when making a cut. Please observe your wrists. How's that balance thing working now?

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i was speaking to general safety and saw control with that; which of course could reflect on kick back.

In one handed operation, kickback would be much worse (i think) becase of the distance from (bar) tip to trigger (hand) is greater, thus leverage against (you), from force input at tip becomes greater with a longer lever. It also seems to me, that the weight forward of that point where solid saw stops and hand grabs becomes part of the formulae of force thrown for you to control, more than the weight behind the hand. Though the rear weight does pull tip in same direction as kickback on pivot of hand. Now; i've never read that, just always seemed the way it was; and why they made top handle saws.

Not sure what you are getting at with 45degree dip; i tend not to cut that way. My most awkward cutting (in air) is knotching meeting faces correctly to a focal of 7:30-8:00 on the off side. If i need to hit 9:00-11:00 on the off side i try to stand shoulder above or rotate wrist to saw perpendicular to arm or in line and upside down?

i try to rest the saw on the wood and let it float through (controlled) as the wood supports the saw, pivoting on dogs; and am more likely to be cutting 45 degress up and over (folding limb away); than the reverse. Though, for folding away, i try to use a wide face focused at 7:00+, with holding wood nipped from the bottom side of hinge, so i can come down flatter at the finish. Then lift saw out of cut as the machine of the folding hinge takes over. Part of the reason i do that is because i am always visualizing the saws path if it kept continuing on its path; so 45 degrees towards seems messy in that light!

 

[Nickrosis]

We seem to be forgetting about inertial chain brakes. Even if kickback were to occur, many times the chain is stopped. You can still have a horrible cut on whatever body part is struck, but it would be far worse if your finger was stuck in the housing and the chain were still spinning.

This is a great reason to wear a hardhat and have brim when using the chainsaw. Mark Chisholm wears one in his Stihl ads that would do an excellent job of stopping the bar if it came near his face.

Chainsaws are dangerous. <-- note the period - they are a bunch of sharp teeth rotating at high speed, close to your body.

Nickrosis

 

[Tom Dunlap]

The Kiwi helmets that Mark, myself and others wear are made of Kevlar. In the really bad situation of kickback, we might enjoy just a teenie bit more cut protection than a plastic helmet.

Why don't the top/rear kickback folks talk to the chain manufacturers at the ISA conference. Husky and Stihl are always there too. These companies have spent engineering dollars to produce a product that they feel fits our needs. If anyone thinks that the arborist industry doesn't drive the chainsaw industry, you need to talk with a sales rep. Arbos own, and cut with, more chainsaws that loggers. I'm basically a one-horse outfit and I still drive up to every job with eight saws in my truck. How many loggers carry that many saws to work? I'm not talking owning here, I'm talking using and needing on a regular basis.

I prefer a top handle pruning saw. 335 right now.

Tom

 

[underwor]

As an instructor, I am supposed to do everything right in class. In real life, I have scars, from before I started teaching, that prove I haven't always done everything right. I have challenged each class so far to show me a branch, which is large enough to need a chainsaw used on it, 3-4"+ that I can not reach with both hands on the saw. So far they have not found one. Looking into my past, most one hand use was the result of being too tired to climb 6" higher, or in my younger days, showing off for the ladies, both of which are not good times to be using a chainsaw with one or two hands.

My two bits.

Bob Underwood

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Wellll, is super modified realy proper use? rakers fileed off??

Kickback has so much force to it that the maginal differance between a forward ballanced saw and ceter balance is neglegable.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

The weight would be somewhat marginal; unless it really got going i see; but i think the length from tip to trigger (where only hand would be to control in one hand use, thereby the pivot point) is a longer lever in rear handled design. Each lever has the same input(chain speed/power at tip of bar), longer lever = more output power (kicking against solo hand)?

Also i guess i am more comfortable with top handled design and kickback in 1 hand use, because in a top handled saw my arm is on top of the saw, helping better to resist such (kickback)action than if behind the kickback?

 

[treeclimber165]

Originally posted by TheTreeSpyder

Also i guess i am more comfortable with top handled design and kickback in 1 hand use, because in a top handled saw my arm is on top of the saw, helping better to resist such (kickback)action than if behind the kickback?

EXACTLY! Assuming someone were to only use one hand on a saw (which none of us would do ), a top handle saw is easier to resist kickback. Using a rear handled saw with one hand, and kickback occurs, you have 10 lbs being propelled upward and backward toward you. With a top handled saw, you only have about 1/3-1/4 of the saw weight being propelled toward your head. For an example, imagine trying to stop a softball coming at you at 50 mph with one hand. Then imagine trying to stop a 10 lb bowling ball coming at you at 50 mph with one hand!
This is all theoretical, anyway, because NONE of us uses a saw with one hand!

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Using your logic, it's easier to throw a bowling ball 50 mph than a softball?
Of course not. It takes a lot to get a heavy object moving.

 

[treespec]

climbing saws

Forrest, Sorry we couldn't hookup last tues., I was at Leu Gardens for the whole day. I've used Echo's 3000 & 3400, but the saw I use the most, is my 020T stihl. Top handle saws are to me at least, easier to use. At $460, it's quality that's well worth it.

 

[SpikedSupra]

Wow

You guys sure have run a serious tangent off of the original question. I had no idea I would stir such a debate. i am enjoying everyone's opinion on this though because it helps me learn more. I am still unsure which saw to use in the tree(rear handled or top handled) because great arguments have been made for both types.

 

[Newfie]

Hey Forrest,

Threads get shanghai-ed all the time, but like you've noticed it can lead to some good debate and really good learning, even if there is never any real agreement on the new direction.

As for your original question, check out the area dealers, find out who the reputable ones are. I learned through experience that brand and cost can be secondary considerations to finding yourself a good servicing dealer. When in business you will want someone competent to fix your equipment quickly, cuz time is $$$.

Sorry for going back on topic guys.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Ha! Now I understand Mikes affection for his rear-handled saws.


Top-handled saws are the best thing to come out since the advent of the 'Pony' type handsaws.

They may take getting used to because are so well-balanced. Cutting with the distal end of bar requires new groups of muscles be developed. This is because the older Poulans, 019's were tip-heavy; TH saws are not.

Not use it one-handed? Har! I could shave somebody with my 200!

 

[NeTree]

Hmmm..

My CS-3400.

Cheaper than dirt,
Plenty of power to get the job done,


and I can't kill the $*&@^$& thing!!!

Straight gas.... saw runs til it seizes, but starts right back up after it cools off. Did this for a week straight. ???? thing would not die.

Tried giving it the "drop test" from the bucket... 17 falls, still started right up. I wore out before it did.

And last but not least, tied it to a rope on the back of the skidder and dragged it around the yard for a few days. STILL ran.

So alas, although not really my *favorite* saw (I'd rather an 020), it seems I'm stuck with this one until the day comes it decides to give up... and from the looks of things, that won't be anytime soon.

 

[treehugger01]

HEH! Ive found them echos run great but the first problem to have with um is the carbs. I tried replacing re working and generally fumbling with the carbs to no avail. After about a year of cutting with the echo its shot out. Time to spend another hundred hehe. Nice product them echo's. I run a husky 136 in the tree now. Ill drop it soon and step up toa 141 husky. Thats top of the line climbing all day with saw. About as beefy as you want being in the air with you for 8 straight hours.
Cheers!

 

[NeTree]

Spiked,

I use BOTH rear and top-handled. Depends on the application.

For most things, the top-handled since it's easier to handle and lighter.

But when the wood starts to get big on a block-down, for example, it's time to switch to progressively bigger saws.

Typically, I'll start out with the 3400, then go to the 55, and if necessary, the 394 til I get to the ground.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
Not use it one-handed? Har! I could shave somebody with my 200!

Cool!!!

 

[treehugger01]

I can finish a tree spikless with a one handed saw in 1/2 the time it takes with a two handed saw. you can just about walk thru a tree with that extra hand to grab on with,.
On removals Its normaly monster and normally roping, I can do a removal job twice as fast with a 2 handed saw than with them itty bitty ones. And my elbow dont hurt as much.